Low HR Training

"Anaerobic" Phase HRT (over MAF) Reports & Discussion (Read 6008 times)

jimmyb


port-a-bella-potty

    I've changed the name of this thread. We should have a thread to talk about things like Parker "Heart Rate Training For The Compleat Idiot" training, Pfitzinger zones, and Maffetone suggestions for anaerobic work, or whatever is relevant to HRT. Basically a phase that includes HR zones over your MAF up to 90% MHR/HRR. This is an essential part of heart-rate training after the aerobic base phase. Technically, just going over MAF on long runs brings you out of a pure base phase. This willl help round out our experience here in this user group. Talk about whatever, report your progress, but keep it to heart-rate training. --Jimmy p.s. WARNING: Even though you'll see that I use Pfitzinger's zone that tops out at 78%HRR, I warn you against it. This zone that tops out at 78% HRR is from ADVANCED Marathoning by Pfitzinger. It is for ADVANCED runners. It is designed for runners with at least a 55 mile per week base. Using the 70-78% HRR zone in the last 1/4 of a run is very hard on the body. It is used to teach running hard while tired in the end of a MARATHON. I suggest you stay away from them until you have a base of 55-60 miles at least. Take it or leave it. Move ahead at own risk.

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    newgeneration


      Sweet run, Jimmy. I have a lot to learn from you once I get past basebuilding. Ted
      jimmyb


      port-a-bella-potty

        Sweet run, Jimmy. I have a lot to learn from you once I get past basebuilding. Ted
        I'm just a fat, farty beginner who has read, experimented, and talked to my running elders a lot. I've managed to combine geekhood with being an athlete. Then there are people like my very good friend who just hires a coach because he doesn't want to think about it. This guy has gone from having Jack Daniels as a personal coach (stress fracture), to a top ten Boston finisher from the 50's (ran him into the ground), to his current coach who is doing an awesome job with him. He has taken my friend ((age 38) down to a 4:25 mile and a 2:40 marathon, and going lower, WHILE keeping him healthy and strong. Great recovery principles. So I experiment with self-coaching and he with different coaches until he found one that worked and kept him healthy. As far as having a lot to learn from me, not much more than I've posted already. If you can take one thing from me it would be--and this is based on my experience--: make recovery your number one running duty --follow hard days with easy days or rest --if you race hard, follow it with easy days or rest --after a half marathon, wait at least two weeks before you go real long (17+) --after a marathon, wait a month --cut back total miles every 4th week 20-50% or more if needed There are exceptions; people like Jesse, Karno, and other Ultragods who are like Ann Rice-ian Vampires who seem to be able to recover overnight. I found out that I'm not one. I am mortal--I think (haven't died yet, so maybe I never will). There is only one way to find out if you're one of these running vampires, build up slowly, then try what they do, if it leaves you broken and not able to run like you would want to, then you are mortal. If you find you are doing 50 marathons in 50 days at the local track, and feel just fine on the 51st day, then call yourself Lestat and get to the business of immortality and being a prophet of the Grand Wow. That's it, I have nothing left, except stay on your fingertips when improvising solos in scales on the guitar, and if a woman loves you because you play guitar--good enough--follow the love. --JImmy

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        jimmyb


        port-a-bella-potty

          A.M. Run tm 1% 5.5 miles 3 @ LT HR 173-182 Ave HR 177 High Ave HR 180 LT ave. pace=7:45 --Jimmy

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          Master of Inconsistency

            Jimmy, nice job today and thanks for the Kudos, I was wondering how these LT runs feel after doing all those slow miles . I can only imagine how painful sub 8 pace must feel after such a long layoff. When I ran most of my mileage last year at around 9mpm the tempos (7:30)were tough. I think I'm going to wean myself slowly back into it when my time comes. BTW: Whats your Max HR?, 177 is a pretty high AHR for a LT run.

            Ain't  Wastin' Time No More !

            jimmyb


            port-a-bella-potty

              Jimmy, nice job today and thanks for the Kudos, I was wondering how these LT runs feel after doing all those slow miles . I can only imagine how painful sub 8 pace must feel after such a long layoff. When I ran most of my mileage last year at around 9mpm the tempos (7:30)were tough. I think I'm going to wean myself slowly back into it when my time comes. BTW: Whats your Max HR?, 177 is a pretty high AHR for a LT run.
              The first few LT runs felt sluggish, but never painful. Today felt fine. My Max HR is 199 (might be a few beats higher). I use the upper end of the Pfitzinger LT run HR zone, and have loosely confirmed it with a Conconi test. I find that I'll average just below the LT for a marathon, which is about right. It works for me very well. I find the LT run tempos to be the numero uno indicator for race fitness, other than races themselves. --Jimmy

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              jimmyb


              port-a-bella-potty

                11/20/08 pm run general aerobic run 6.5 miles highest ave HR per mile 162 (75% HRR) ave pace 9:56 12 miles total for the day. Giants vs. Pats Amazing Race finished well! --Jimmy

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                  11/20/08 pm run general aerobic run 6.5 miles highest ave HR per mile 162 (75% HRR) ave pace 9:56 12 miles total for the day. Giants vs. Pats Amazing Race finished well! --Jimmy
                  Good work Jimmy, i'll come back and read this post in 10 weeks when my base building phase is done. I'm a colts fan so go giants, yet to see amazing race finale but can't wait (the internet is an amazing thing, australian tv channel is showing series 10 over here at the moment [2 seasons ago] so it's nice to be able to keep with it as it happens in the US!)

                  Just running for the fun of it!

                  labhiker


                    Jim Im thinking of jumping out of full aerobic training in a few weeks and introducing some anaerobic work. My goal is to jump start my performance and improve my pace. Currently all my runs are at MAF -10, -5 and Im going at a slow steady pace of 12:30ish. Can you share some suggestions on the best way to slowly introduce aerobic training and not ruin MAF basebubuilding. My current training goal is 26.2 in early May.

                    labhiker

                      Hi Jimmy! Smile 7 mile "warmup" with my wife today. 10:45 pace, 118 AHR. 1 mile close to MAF (144), then 4M@7:13. Avg. HR 166. 1.5 mile cooldown. 13.5 total. Planned marathon AHR: 174. Planned pace: 7:20. I figure a Garmin pace of 7:13 is right on my 7:20 goal pace, since it always measures long on races. Actually my goal pace is 7:27 (Myrtle Beach marathon in 3.5 weeks) but I'm hopeful I can sneak in a bit under that. Shy
                      lowgear1


                      Max McMaffelow Esq.

                        I'm just a fat, farty beginner who has read, experimented, and talked to my running elders a lot. I've managed to combine geekhood with being an athlete. Then there are people like my very good friend who just hires a coach because he doesn't want to think about it. This guy has gone from having Jack Daniels as a personal coach (stress fracture), to a top ten Boston finisher from the 50's (ran him into the ground), to his current coach who is doing an awesome job with him. He has taken my friend ((age 38) down to a 4:25 mile and a 2:40 marathon, and going lower, WHILE keeping him healthy and strong. Great recovery principles. So I experiment with self-coaching and he with different coaches until he found one that worked and kept him healthy. As far as having a lot to learn from me, not much more than I've posted already. If you can take one thing from me it would be--and this is based on my experience--: make recovery your number one running duty --follow hard days with easy days or rest --if you race hard, follow it with easy days or rest --after a half marathon, wait at least two weeks before you go real long (17+) --after a marathon, wait a month --cut back total miles every 4th week 20-50% or more if needed There are exceptions; people like Jesse, Karno, and other Ultragods who are like Ann Rice-ian Vampires who seem to be able to recover overnight. I found out that I'm not one. I am mortal--I think (haven't died yet, so maybe I never will). There is only one way to find out if you're one of these running vampires, build up slowly, then try what they do, if it leaves you broken and not able to run like you would want to, then you are mortal. If you find you are doing 50 marathons in 50 days at the local track, and feel just fine on the 51st day, then call yourself Lestat and get to the business of immortality and being a prophet of the Grand Wow. That's it, I have nothing left, except stay on your fingertips when improvising solos in scales on the guitar, and if a woman loves you because you play guitar--good enough--follow the love. --JImmy
                        Shocked Shocked Dude, GregL dropped a dime saying you were hangin here. Thought i'd stop by and say hi!! From the looks of it things must be going great. LG1 back to aerobia, where life is slow and easy, chow!!
                        ♪ ♫ Hey, hey, we're Maf Monkees And people say we monkey around. ♪ ♫ (The Monkees)
                        Give me 12:59 in '09, please. I deserve it! (Maf of course)..No more teens! No more teens! (ME! ME! ME!)
                        ♪ ♫ I Thank The Lord For The Night Time...And I Thank The Lord For You ♪ ♫ (Neil Diamond)
                        jimmyb


                        port-a-bella-potty

                          Hi Jimmy! Smile 7 mile "warmup" with my wife today. 10:45 pace, 118 AHR. 1 mile close to MAF (144), then 4M@7:13. Avg. HR 166. 1.5 mile cooldown. 13.5 total. Planned marathon AHR: 174. Planned pace: 7:20. I figure a Garmin pace of 7:13 is right on my 7:20 goal pace, since it always measures long on races. Actually my goal pace is 7:27 (Myrtle Beach marathon in 3.5 weeks) but I'm hopeful I can sneak in a bit under that. Shy
                          Hey Doc, Yes! You are running quite healthy. Good to hear. Good luck with your Marathon. Make sure to write a report and post it in this LHR Group! 7:27--my only word of wisdom is start out about 7:47 and ease into that pace. If the pace is right, you should be able to maintain it, and have a bit at the end. Other than that, I have nothing to say, since you are faster than me. Cool --Jimmy

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                          jimmyb


                          port-a-bella-potty

                            Shocked Shocked Dude, GregL dropped a dime saying you were hangin here. Thought i'd stop by and say hi!! From the looks of it things must be going great. LG1 back to aerobia, where life is slow and easy, chow!!
                            Hi Low, I thought I'd create a thread for the anaerobic phase, as to not confuse the issue in the aerobic phrase thread. Except for Doc, I'm the only one posting, so I'm getting a little shy. I don't want this to be all-me. Roll eyes What's up with me--I'm using the emoticons! My runs are doing fine. Legs are starting to wake up from the MAF hibernation. 7 months of burning fat in a snowcave. --Jimmy

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                            lowgear1


                            Max McMaffelow Esq.

                              Jimmy, Oh yeah,..groovy wallpaper......man "stop now what's that sound, everybody look what's going down"..Orig. Buffalo Springfield lyric things are so easy on the aerobic side that "even a caveman could do it", ..at least that's what my therapist says. I'll be peeking in from time to time..if I dare. LG1 Big grin Big grin Edit time, damn i'm getting slow..Hi Low..yin/yang?..must be the wp feng shui?? ..i'm outta here!
                              ♪ ♫ Hey, hey, we're Maf Monkees And people say we monkey around. ♪ ♫ (The Monkees)
                              Give me 12:59 in '09, please. I deserve it! (Maf of course)..No more teens! No more teens! (ME! ME! ME!)
                              ♪ ♫ I Thank The Lord For The Night Time...And I Thank The Lord For You ♪ ♫ (Neil Diamond)
                                Hey Doc, Yes! You are running quite healthy. Good to hear. Good luck with your Marathon. Make sure to write a report and post it in this LHR Group! 7:27--my only word of wisdom is start out about 7:47 and ease into that pace. If the pace is right, you should be able to maintain it, and have a bit at the end. Other than that, I have nothing to say, since you are faster than me. Cool --Jimmy
                                Thanks for the advice! And good advice it is...however knowing me I'll try to hit 7:25 on the first mile. Not any faster, but not much slower. Then again, slowing down a bit can help me from wasting so much energy dodging the people who go out at 7:30 when their pace is really more like 9:00....I LOVE those people. Roll eyes Tomorrow I'm doing either 4x1600 or 5x1600. I see how my legs feel as to whether I do the 5th one. It would be my only track workout before the marathon. Just a few more short tempo's and some MP miles after that. I'm trying to work in a bit more marathon pace miles for this attempt. I figure 2700 miles in 2007, most of them below MAF, gives me the right. Or at least that's how I'm justifying it. Tongue