... +1: I just realized I totally don't feel hungry. it's been hours since the workout and nothing - that's quite a weird experience to me, does that mean I was doing it right or not? ...

 I strongly believe that means you were doing it right.  That's the way it works for me, and for  number of others I've talked to.  39 years ago I discovered that when I ran at least 35 - 40 minutes easy (before breakfast) I was not very hungry at breakfast or even at lunchtime.  The time you have to go for this to happen probably is an individual matter, but 45 minutes seems to do it for most folks.  I know a woman who's a walker (about 13 m/m) who says that she's always hungry when she wakes up, but 45 minutes after she starts out the hunger disappears.

.

After my first 40+ mile training run it was mid-afternoon when I realized "Hey, I haven't had anything to eat today...".  That was 5 - 6 hours after I'd finished, and I just hadn't felt hungry.

Fasted-state runs can be great.  If you're not experiencing hunger during a fast then it means your body is likely regulating blood sugar well and efficiently deriving energy from fat.  All good signs.

 

Just be careful - after a longer run it is important to replenish your glycogen stores with some dietary carbohydrate.  Your body will seek to replenish the glycogen one way or another, but if you don't eat carbs after a long run your body can end up catabolizing lean tissue to create the new glycogen.  A 4:1 carb to protein ratio can be very helpful in this regard.  I'd personally recommend steering clear of commercial "recovery" drinks like Accelerade for this. There's nothing in those drinks that you can't get from a smoothie made with some organic yogurt, berries, and nut butter, and a homemade drink won't have all the funky chemicals and junk you get from commercial drinks.  Doesn't sound like you're there yet, but remember that if/when you get there.

 

Now, if you'll suffer one more piece of advice:  I see you're eager to learn more about MAF training through the books.  The books are very helpful, and Jimmy was right to point you to "The Maffetone Method."  But don't think it more complicated than it is.   It's supposed to be easy and fun.  There really aren't any secrets or complicated ideas behind MAF training. If anything, Dr. Phil's ideas on diet are more challenging to implement than his ideas on training.  The "Boilerplate" thread hits virtually all there is to the training.  So just remember:

 

• When you're building a base just keep your HR below the 180- formula.
• Do regular MAF tests every 3-4 weeks to check your progress.
• As long as you see progress, relax and know that you're doing it "right."
• If you stop seeing progress or regress then think about why and try to correct it.
• Don't simply assume that a lack of progress is the result of not training hard enough or long enough.
• Diet (esp. excess high glycemic carbs, or insufficient or imbalanced dietary fats) can impede progress.
• Most of all, have fun - if your training is dull, then change it up. Just stick to the 180- formula in the base phase.

Again, just to be clear, I think what I'm setting forth there is a pretty "orthodox" approach to Maffetone's training.  More strict than what I practice now for sure.  However, I think it will really help for someone approaching LHR training for the first time to spend a good block of time just doing the "orthodox" basics first before trying to "tweak" it.  After you've done some time with the basics you'll have a much better idea of how you respond to them and what, if anything, you might need to change to make it really work for you.

Thanks for the compliment.  There's really no magic to MAF.  I did omit one important bullet point though

 

• Always properly warm up and cool down, even if that's all you do in your workout.

I don't think there's any hard and fast rules about what a long run would be, but 90 minutes to 2 hours sounds about right.

 

Unsweetened ice tea works great for me on fasted carb-free long runs.  It's a great break from the monotony of plain water.  The caffeine might be a slight diuretic but may also help accelerate fat burning.  It's never caused me a problem.  If it agrees with your tummy and you're not over caffeinating yourself it should be fine.

 

Regular MAF tests are an important diagnostic, I think.  Dr. Phil writes about setting your workout schedule on a time basis rather than a mileage basis ("In Fitness and in Health" p. 218), so on a day to day basis how far you run and the pace is kind of irrelevant.  The MAF test is the one time where you really should focus on maintaining your pace over a fixed distance.  It's a real fitness test.  There's no real benefit to doing a test like that more than once every 3 or 4 weeks and turning every run into a "mini MAF-test" can get you too focused on the inevitable day to day fluctuations rather than looking at the long term trend.

Sorry, "maintaining" was a typo.  Should have been "measuring."

if your training is dull, then change it up. Just stick to the 180- formula in the base phase

OK, what should I mean by "dull" and "changing up" here?

 

For real?  When I think "dull" I think of monotonous and un-fun.  If you dread your workout do something different to bring back the fun.  Take a gentle bike ride instead of running.  Run someplace new or at a different time of day.  Sounds like you enjoy doing MAF so this shouldn't be a problem for you right  now.

 

I'm now wondering if I could do a run at MAF+5? would that be that bad?

 

Might be, might not be.  You won't know unless and until you try.  The good Doctor Phil would recommend only doing over-MAF work after you've built a strong aerobic base.  So I wonder why mess with a good thing?  If you like MAF and are just starting out why not just stick with it for a while and see where it takes you?  Fun is good.  I'm all about fun.  But if you start throwing in a ton of variables it will be harder to decode what your MAF tests are telling you.  That said, a single +5 run might not be a problem for you.  Heck, you might be one of those people who can honestly take the +5 over the 180- number and still progress.  The danger is that you won't know if you can unless you try and then you risk a set back or slower progress.  With a half-marathon on the horizon why risk it?

 

MHR and AT are all pretty irrelevant for MAF training.  The point at which you get a roughly 50/50 mix of carb and fat for fuel is pretty low down the HR chart, but YMMV.

 

that reminds me of another thing I've been wondering about. I can very easily push my HR up with psych stuff....did anyone else experience any of this?

 

Yes, sympathetic (or is it parasympathetic - I can never keep those straight) stimulation can send your HR up.  Strap on your HRM next time you ride a roller coaster and see what happens.  I don't think your body always does a good job of understanding why HR is elevated it just knows HR is up which can signal a stress response.   Take the roller coaster example - your body doesn't know if you're on a roller coaster or tied to a chair watching "Mr. Blonde" turn on "Stuck in the Middle with You."  It just knows something scary's going on and acts accordingly - like firing up cortisol or adreneline.  When those guys get ramped up say "bye bye" to fat burning.  It's similar when you exercise (except your body understands that there's work involved, of course) - any kind of excitement above baseline can elevate your HR (hopefully to a lesser degree than a knife-wielding Michael Madsen, though). The more mellow your surroundings and frame of mind the easier it can be to keep your HR in check.  How about asking your running buddies to slow down?  Maybe they'll see the same benefits you do.

 

cmon - try not to overthink or complicate this whole LHR program and theory. Variety is ok and you may or may not increase the time needed for a solid base phase by going over your MAF number. The short spikes are outliers and I wouldn't even consider these pertinent - don't focus on those. I'm speaking more of workouts where you spend a good amount of time over MAF but less than say LT.

 

I see this as a way to help me learn how to make my easy runs truely easy, not overtrain, enjoy each run, gain fitness, and stay healthy or injury free. My opinion (and it may not be shared by all) is that base training is measured in years and thousands of miles and not in months. Renato Canova - a very famous coach put it this way:

 

Training should be general first at the beginnning and then you make progress to more specific runs. Tell me my friend, how can you achieve great result when your aerobic capacity is weak and your endurance is not so good. Your gas tank will be empty very soon during a race. You must run many kilometers that are below lactate tolerance pace before you can try specific runs. I think running economy, yes this is important. You will want to have some hill workouts mixed in for strength purposes my friend.

I believe you can build more kilometers faster my friend if you are experienced distance runner with many years of work. If you are young and new to running then you will need to slowly build your kilometers.

Miles are miles. If you get stuck too tightly to any system so that it becomes a master of your domain, you will risk losing the joy of running. Lets face it - only a very few runners will be elites. The rest of us run for our own reasons but life is too short to do something that does not bring you joy. I think LHR helped me reconnect with this but I also like trying to run fast so I do this too. LHR keeps me injury free and reduces stress so I can hit the gas on occassion. I don't sweat being over the line a little - miles are miles when building an aerobic engine. Think years and decades - not months.

 

Ok - the soap box is clear for the next person.

"cmon" here sounds like "come on", doesn't it?

 

thanks for telling me your opinion. glad I got this instead of  "just don't go over MAF because it may just hurt your aerobic system too much especially if your diet is not right and if you are a beginner and omg you'll lose all you've already built before, in a single non-MAF workout because aerobic fitness can be so fragile" (not that anyone ever said exactly this but I saw other statements that *could* be read this way, probably incorrectly.)

 

anyway, I'm not (consciously) overthinking it, it is something more automatic. I will try to repeat it again: I do not worry when I see my HR going up, because I know it will go back anyway. it is something different. it's a stress reaction in my brain somehow. I'm still fighting it a little bit. OK this is hard to explain I guess... btw I enjoy the running itself, that part is fine. if I wasn't enjoying it I'd have quit already.

 

I was just curious if anyone experienced such a reaction. it's sort of a subconscious origin, and it just isn't pleasant when it happens. the frequency of it has been reduced but it needs to completely go.

 

the reason may be that I'm near a fine border between running and walking but that's just a guess.

 

but yeah MAF is good, one of the goals has already been achieved by using it: comeback from previous month's problems while still keeping running!

 

as for base training measured in years... I'm totally fine with that ofcourse there is a difference between base training at 11m/mile and 13m/mile, and I will admit that while I like running this way right now, I would not want to do these 13m/mile paces for years.

 

for now my plan is stick with MAF at least until my first race and get rid of the stress thing. as for the MAF+5, it will depend on what I'll feel like doing on sunday (the day before my rest day).

 

PS: of course I don't want to be an elite, obviously I cannot be one because I started at age 26. but long term goal is be able to let my legs go as fast as they would like to go. currently they are faster than the rest of my body

 

PS2: I just realized my training log wasn't set to public... sorry! it is public now.