Low HR Training

1

MAF test, showing improvement! (Read 42 times)

    I have gone through a couple of periods where I stuck (nearly always!) below MAF. But it has been a while, so today I decided to go out and run at MAF, sort of a MAF test I guess. My plan was to run as close to MAF as I could manage until either my pace dropped significantly, my HR got harder to control, or I hit 2 hours. Turns out all three happened at about the same time.

     

    MAF: 180-36=144

    course: 1.2 mile mountain bike trail loop with ~90ft gain, 90ft loss per loop (flattest trail I know).

    weather: 40 degrees, variable winds.

    9.6 total miles, 12:04 average pace.

     

     TypeDistance Split settingsDurationTotal DurationPaceAvg HRMax HRNotes
    1 Interval 1.2 mi 14:49.35 14:49.35 12:22 132   warm-up
    2 Interval 1.2 mi 13:38.78 28:28.13 11:23 144 149  a little too fast
    3 Rest <center>—</center> 0:45 29:13.13 <center>—</center>     pee break, set HR alarms at 138, 144
    4 Interval 1.2 mi 14:11.62 43:24.75 11:50 142 147  
    5 Interval 1.2 mi 14:37.23 58:01.98 12:12 143 148 had to jump out of the way of a biker, needed another pee break (stopped watch)
    6 Interval 1.2 mi 14:12.60 1:12:14.58 11:51 143 150  
    7 Interval 1.2 mi 14:31.75 1:26:46.33 12:07 143 147  
    8 Interval 1.2 mi 14:38.80 1:41:25.13 12:13 143 148  
    9 Interval 1.18 mi 14:49.52 1:56:14.65 12:34 144 152 low was 136, hard to control HR

     

    heart rate graph: shows that most of the time I was able to keep it fluctuating between 140-145 and you can see the swings increasing in amplitude at the end.

     

    The effort felt harder than my regular easy runs, at least for the first 6 miles or so. I probably should have warmed-up longer, letting my HR increase naturally to MAF instead of arbitrarily jumping up to MAF on loop 2. My normal easy runs, when I bother to wear the HR monitor, tend to have an average HR of 130-140, but with more variation as I don't slow as much going uphill or speed up as much going down, and I tend to run much hillier routes. This felt like a hard easy run if that makes any sense.

     

    I don't have enough previous data to really compare this to much, this is the best I could do, from December 5th, 2012, 60 degrees out (not including a 1 loop warm-up).

     

     TypeDistanceDurationTotal DurationPaceAvg HRMax HRNotes
    1 Interval 1.2 mi 18:07 18:07 15:06 139 148  
    2 Interval 1.2 mi 18:07 36:14 15:06 141 154  
    3 Interval 1.2 mi 18:40 54:54 15:34 141 151  
    4 Interval 1.2 mi 18:17 1:13:11 15:15 141 151  
    5 Interval 1.2 mi 18:36 1:31:47 15:30 141 150

     

    So obviously significant improvement, and better HR control.

     

    I was not exactly following a MAF base building period. I did drastically increase my monthly mileage (from an inconsistent average of 15 miles per week last year, to 47 miles per week average so far for 2013) with a lot of easy runs and one or two interval, hill repeats (some were hiking hill repeats), or tempo runs per week (not done very intensely, I'm trying to ease into the faster stuff).

     

    So for those of you who have some experience with MAF tests, what can you tell me? Is the pace increase ok?

     

    modified to clarify question.

    Mt Cheaha 50k 2/23/2013:  7:34 :D

    Lake Martin 50; 27 miles: 5:29:07

    Run For Kids 50k, Birmingham, 5/4/2013: 6:26:33 Woot!

      So obviously significant improvement, and better HR control.

       

      I was not exactly following a MAF base building period. I did drastically increase my monthly mileage (from an inconsistent average of 15 miles per week last year, to 47 miles per week average so far for 2013) with a lot of easy runs and one or two interval, hill repeats (some were hiking hill repeats), or tempo runs per week (not done very intensely, I'm trying to ease into the faster stuff).

       

      So for those of you who have some experience with MAF tests, what can you tell me? Is the pace increase ok?

        

      well congrats on the improvement Smile interesting you are in the camp that feels MAF is a harder kind of easy run if going by the formula. I do think with such a mileage increase it's been a good idea for you to run well below MAF in the 130's.

       

      I'm not sure if your question is about whether the faster stuff is OK or did you ask about something else? btw when did you start adding the intervals and hill repeats and tempo runs?

        I started adding in some intervals and hill repeats at the beginning of February. I did some medium-ish runs in January, to ease into it.

         

        MAF pace felt way too easy when I started. I had to walk up hills etc., but now it feels harder than a true easy pace (at least on most days).

         

        I kind of thought my question was a little unclear.  I'm just wondering what sort of pace drop people usually see in a MAF test.

        Mt Cheaha 50k 2/23/2013:  7:34 :D

        Lake Martin 50; 27 miles: 5:29:07

        Run For Kids 50k, Birmingham, 5/4/2013: 6:26:33 Woot!


        Bad Ass

          MAF explains this in his book.  If I remember, there comes a time when improvements are so substantial, your legs might not be able to keep with the speed at MAF and therefore you need to run slower than MAF to keep it easy as you get faster.

           

          I started adding in some intervals and hill repeats at the beginning of February. I did some medium-ish runs in January, to ease into it.

           

          MAF pace felt way too easy when I started. I had to walk up hills etc., but now it feels harder than a true easy pace (at least on most days).

           

          I kind of thought my question was a little unclear.  I'm just wondering what sort of pace drop people usually see in a MAF test.

          Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

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          Consistently Slow

            I started adding in some intervals and hill repeats at the beginning of February. I did some medium-ish runs in January, to ease into it.

             

            MAF pace felt way too easy when I started. I had to walk up hills etc., but now it feels harder than a true easy pace (at least on most days).

             

            I kind of thought my question was a little unclear.  I'm just wondering what sort of pace drop people usually see in a MAF test.

            I drop 1:15 over a 5 mile test. I have managed  a 0:45 drop.

             

            I noticed you are registered for the Run for Kids 50k. I did it last year. The heat and humitdy were brutal. Glad a did not do the 12H.Have fun!

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              I drop 1:15 over a 5 mile test. I have managed  a 0:45 drop.

               

              I noticed you are registered for the Run for Kids 50k. I did it last year. The heat and humitdy were brutal. Glad a did not do the 12H.Have fun!

               

              Thanks. It helps to see what kind of drops others have seen.

               

              Really looking forward to the Run for Kids 50k. I am going to try racing it, rather than just finishing, so it should be interesting!

              Mt Cheaha 50k 2/23/2013:  7:34 :D

              Lake Martin 50; 27 miles: 5:29:07

              Run For Kids 50k, Birmingham, 5/4/2013: 6:26:33 Woot!

                I started adding in some intervals and hill repeats at the beginning of February. I did some medium-ish runs in January, to ease into it.

                 

                MAF pace felt way too easy when I started. I had to walk up hills etc., but now it feels harder than a true easy pace (at least on most days).

                 

                I kind of thought my question was a little unclear.  I'm just wondering what sort of pace drop people usually see in a MAF test.

                 

                oh I understand the question now. for a MAF number, I'll refer to 180-age number in my case. in winter, I don't really get a pace drop but in summer I do, maybe something like 20secs slowing in the pace over 5miles. I have no idea if the amount of drop (=slowing) indicates anything. for sure most people slow over time so you don't need to worry!

                 

                as for the MAF pace - I don't think it should feel hard for you if it used to feel easy and you're at 12min/mile pace at MAF now. when I improved from 15 to 12 (I see you started out at 15, it was the same for me.), I didn't feel 12 was anything harder than the initial slower pace was. maybe it feels harder for you now because you're doing a lot of miles. not saying that's a bad thing Smile I don't know about your previous training loads, if it was a sudden increase, that would explain it perhaps. still as long as you're improving, this should be OK.

                 

                 

                 

                MAF explains this in his book.  If I remember, there comes a time when improvements are so substantial, your legs might not be able to keep with the speed at MAF and therefore you need to run slower than MAF to keep it easy as you get faster.

                 

                yeah but I didn't think it would be at 12min/mile pace. I don't know really, just my guess is that for most people this isn't a speed that would be a problem for the legs if the aerobic system can support it. (I'm of course excluding very old people here)

                   

                  Really looking forward to the Run for Kids 50k. I am going to try racing it, rather than just finishing, so it should be interesting!

                   

                  hey good luck! Big grin Cool

                     

                    hey good luck! Big grin Cool

                    Thanks!

                     

                    I don't know what my MAF pace would be on a flat road. The 12 min/mile is on the flattest (but still rolling twisty single track trail with some rocky sections) trail I know about. I averaged <8 min/mile on the last two 5k road races I did (both hilly by road standards).

                     

                    I agree that I don't think 12min/miles should feel harder than easy... it is still slow. Maybe it is just that I do lots of runs that are slower than that so by comparison it feels harder than I am used to??

                    Mt Cheaha 50k 2/23/2013:  7:34 :D

                    Lake Martin 50; 27 miles: 5:29:07

                    Run For Kids 50k, Birmingham, 5/4/2013: 6:26:33 Woot!