Low HR Training

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Older Runner Coming Back from Injury (Read 449 times)


In it for the long run..

    I may or may not be ready to start back with some slow running after being injured since late March.  It's a very difficult injury (upper hamstring tendinopathy) and slow to heal.  I won't go into all that.  I have made several attempts at a come back (ran quite a bit in June and August), but I'm really not better yet.  I DID do the Las Vegas half last weekend without training (had intended to walk) and did not damage the injury, but had quad soreness equal to any marathon I have run.

     

    I am 58 years old and in 2009 ran 5 marathons (with about a 4:09 best (3:08 lifetime best)).   I clearly over-raced and finally broke in March.  Had a streak of 385 days.  25:00 5K,  1:53 half.

     

    I did some MAF training in early 2008 after a broken knee (fracture) in 2007 and I think it was very helpful in returning to fitness without injury.  I used a MAF of 135.  My normal aerobic training range is 136-148.  Tested max HR of 185..

     

    My question now is how to adjust MAF for my age.  I am inclined to use the 135 or 136 again.  I had to walk quite a bit- especially in the early stages and now I am less fit (not to mention the injury). 

     

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    "It's not who wins the workout..."


    Consistently Slow

      Did you read the sticky?

       

       

       

      Calculate Your Own Maximum Aerobic Training Heart Rate

      To find your maximum aerobic training heart rate, there are two important steps. First, subtract your age from 180. Next, find the best category for your present state of fitness and health, and make the appropriate adjustments:
      1. Subtract your age from 180.
      2. Modify this number by selecting among the following categories the one that best matches your fitness and health profile:
       a. If you have or are recovering from a major illness (heart disease, any operation or hospital stay, etc.) or are on any regular medication, subtract an additional 10.
       b. If you are injured, have regressed in training or competition, get more than two colds or bouts of flu per year, have allergies or asthma, or if you have been inconsistent or are just getting back into training, subtract an additional 5.
       c. If you have been training consistently (at least four times weekly) for up to two years without any of the problems just mentioned, keep the number (180–age) the same.
       d. If you have been training for more than two years without any of the problems listed above, and have made progress in competition without injury, add 5.

      For example, if you are thirty years old and fit into category (b), you get the following:
      180–30=150. Then 150–5=145 beats per minute (bpm).

      In this example, 145 will be the highest heart rate for all training. This is highly aerobic, allowing you to most efficiently build an aerobic base. Training above this heart rate rapidly incorporates anaerobic function, exemplified by a shift to burning more sugar and less fat for fuel.

      Run until the trail runs out.

      2013***1500 miles

      50 miler

      Race Less Train More

       

      Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

      "The Marble in The Groove"

       

      unsolicited chatter

      http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

      C-R


        Yeah Karen. Welcome back to the LHR forum.

         

        Ron hits the mark but let me pose my hybrid solution which I used most of last year. I went Van Aacken which was anything less than 150. That allowed for some room and I ended up in the 140 range most of the time anyway. Extrapolate from my age (44 -> MAF 136) to yours (58 -> MAF 122) I would think you could top out at the 135 to 136 range and still get aerobic benefit while staying at a pace that lets you recover or stay injury free.

         

        Just some of my out of the box thinking. Remember it's worth exactly what you paid for it $0.00 Big grin


        "He conquers who endures" - Persius
        "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

          I dunno, going by that I could add 14 beats to my 180-age MAF 153 so it would be 167 but I really see a difference between 153 and 167. 153 is much lower impact and seems better for coming back. later it could be upped though... Smile 167 for me is probably still a lot of fats, but I'm talking about impact on the legs.


          In it for the long run..

            Thanks, Norm.  I think the 135-136 is probably the right target for me.

             

            Runnerclay-  Yes, I have read the stickies and much of the material available.  What I did NOT find was something definitive other than "the formulas might not work for those young or over mid-50s".  That's why I asked the question.    I know how to do math. 

             

            Plus, with me there is the issue of having cardio fitness due to the stupid cross-training I've had to do for the last 8 months, but no running fitness.    Not to mention that I'm not completely sure I am actually OK to start running.  That's part of why I thought the forced walks to keep the HR down might be good.

            "It's not who wins the workout..."

            jimmyb


              Hi Karen,

               

              Welcome back. There's a sign on the statue that stands out front of this forum that reads:

               

              "Bring us your injuries, your over-training, your aerobic deficiency, and your cookies. Welcome."

               

              You obviously understand the formula and the adjustments and why, and are deciding to do what you think works for you. My only suggestion is that you do a regular MAF test at 180-age +5 (for over 55) (127 bpm). It can be 1 mile or 5, or 45 minutes, whatever. Just every 3-4 weeks. If the tests are progressing, then the zone you are working in should be good. If not, then you might consider an adjustment downward in heart rate. The MAF test is so key. Doing them regularly throughout all phases, including race season, can help you avoid the break down, as a deteriorating aerobic system and pending breakdown will show up in your tests long before an injury or a possible severe over-trained state.

               

              I'm sorry to hear about your injury. What a year you had! 5 marathons!

               

              I hope you heal quickly and get back to your happy place. Cool

               

              --Jimmy

               

              P.S. Dr. Phil Maffetone says adjustments of up to ten beats may or may not be needed over 60+. MArk Allen has the +5 adjustment for 55+ on his website--a slight difference than Dr. Phil's. The key is to be honest about what is working and what isn't.

              Log


              In it for the long run..

                Great advice.  Thanks, Jimmy.

                "It's not who wins the workout..."


                Consistently Slow

                   

                   

                  Runnerclay-  Yes, I have read the stickies and much of the material available.  What I did NOT find was something definitive other than "the formulas might not work for those young or over mid-50s".  That's why I asked the question.    I know how to do math. 

                   

                  Plus, with me there is the issue of having cardio fitness due to the stupid cross-training I've had to do for the last 8 months, but no running fitness.    Not to mention that I'm not completely sure I am actually OK to start running.  That's part of why I thought the forced walks to keep the HR down might be good.

                  I  should not have been flip. I apologize. Dr.Phil suggest(somewhere ) running maff-10. It worked for me. 10+ years of repeated injuries.

                  Run until the trail runs out.

                  2013***1500 miles

                  50 miler

                  Race Less Train More

                   

                  Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                  "The Marble in The Groove"

                   

                  unsolicited chatter

                  http://bkclay.blogspot.com/


                  In it for the long run..

                    Clay- no problem.  Thanks.

                    "It's not who wins the workout..."


                    In it for the long run..

                      TypeDistanceTimeTotal TimePaceAvg HRMax HRNotes
                      Interval 1 Mi 12:03.98 12:03.98 12:04 131 138  
                      Interval 1 Mi 13:26.58 25:30.56 13:27 134 140  
                      Interval 1 Mi 14:27.56 39:58.12 14:28 135 141  
                      Interval 1 Mi 15:03.68 55:01.80 15:04 135 141  
                      Interval 0.3 Mi 4:15.79 59:17.59 14:13 135 148  

                      This was my first try.    Had a little bit of a downgrade start, hence the 12:03.  In the last 1/2 mile I had an upgrade and bad wind, which is the 148 spike.  I didn't have to do a "real" walk until almost 4- I was able to keep it at a shuffle until then.   I still need to slow it down, but I will get the hang of it.    Hamstring/sitbone somewhat sore after but nothing like before.  I may need to do every other day due to the injury, but that's hard for me to do.      I also have to get used to feeling like I am the slowest person on the trail. 

                      "It's not who wins the workout..."

                      C-R


                        Karen,

                         

                        Good points by Jimmy. I totally flaked on the MAF test to keep track. Its one of the bedrocks. That is why he is the svengali of this forum.

                         

                        Anyway, good work there. One thing that helped me greatly was to get a good 15 to 20 minute warmup prior to my test miles. It really makes a difference.

                         

                        Oh and you may be the slowest person on the trail but youre still faster than the millions of people that were hanging out in a barcalounger while you were running. So there.

                         


                        "He conquers who endures" - Persius
                        "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel


                        Petco Run/Walk/Wag 5k

                          Karen - I think we'll have to race to see who is the slowest on the trail...Big grin

                          bob e v
                          2014 goals: keep on running! Is there anything more than that?

                          Complete the last 3 races in the Austin Distance Challenge, Rogue 30k, 3M Half, Austin Full

                          Break the 1000 mi barrier!

                          History: blessed heart attack 3/15/2008; c25k july 2008 first 5k 10/26/2008 on 62nd birthday.


                          Consistently Slow

                            14.6 miles HR 137 /168 Shocked. Stn Mtn outer loop. Some killer hills.Quads were screaming on the 2nd go round.

                            Run until the trail runs out.

                            2013***1500 miles

                            50 miler

                            Race Less Train More

                             

                            Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                            "The Marble in The Groove"

                             

                            unsolicited chatter

                            http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                            Can I be Frank


                            Walk This Way...this way

                              Hey, Karen
                              Welcome back! I'm sure you'll be back to form in no time, and
                              pouring it on!

                              Don't let Bob e v's trash talkin' disarm ya!

                              I know slow.
                              Prepared to throw down the gauntlet, if need be.
                              And it's not even January!



                              ts


                              Petco Run/Walk/Wag 5k

                                I was thinking of you as I wrote that Tom! We'll have to pick a place for the three of us to meet up and "race" for who is the slowest... somewhere with firm mattresses and soft pillows so we won't hurt ourselves "moving" to quickly!!

                                 

                                btw: I'm about to head out for what will likely be my slowest half yet. A very hilly Decker Challenge on a cold and windy morning. This describes the course, http://www.halfmarathons.net/usa_half_marathons_texas_decker_challenge_half_marathon.html. I expect it will take 3 1/4 to 3 1/2 hours for me to finish. 

                                bob e v
                                2014 goals: keep on running! Is there anything more than that?

                                Complete the last 3 races in the Austin Distance Challenge, Rogue 30k, 3M Half, Austin Full

                                Break the 1000 mi barrier!

                                History: blessed heart attack 3/15/2008; c25k july 2008 first 5k 10/26/2008 on 62nd birthday.

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