Low HR Training

1

MAF: How do you determine race HR? (Read 886 times)

zonykel


    I bought "The Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing" and find the idea of the MAF intriguing, so I decided to give it a try.

     

    I determined my MAF to be 141 bpm. Since I just started, this translate roughly to a 10:30 min/mile pace. I've seen some threads asking what the race pace should be. Shouldn't the question be what should my HR be during the race?

     

    There aren't a lot of clues in the book listed above. On page 92, it has a table comparing MAF pace to 5K race pace. Clearly, you're supposed to run faster than your MAF during a 5K race. But no guidelines are provided as to what HR we should aim for.

     

    There is a table on page 51 titled "Table indicating how much aerobic and anaerobic energy is used during competition of varying length". For example, a race that lasts roughly 1 minute is 70% anaerobic and 30% aerobic; 2 minutes is 50% anaerobic and 50% aerobic. When we get to 60 minutes, it's 2% anaerobic and 98% aerobic.

     

    Based on that table, I'm going to assume that the more aerobic the race, the closer race pace will be to MAF pace. I don't recall the exact page in the book, but it mentions something to the effect that a race as long as the Hawaii Ironman should not be run faster than MAF pace, so that corroborates my assumption. Additionally, the book also mentions that we should treat races as part of our anaerobic workout.

     

    Is there another Maffetone book or link that provides guidelines for pace or HR during various types of races? I'm familiar with the calculators provided by Macmillan and Daniels. But are they valid for the MAF pace?


    Consistently Slow

      Unless your aerobic endurance is great you will not run Maff HR at  a 10:30 pace or even close to it. Do a Maff test. Look under FAQ. Use the Team Oregon pace wizard for HRs.

      Run until the trail runs out.

      2013***1500 miles

      50 miler

      Race Less Train More

       

      Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

      "The Marble in The Groove"

       

      unsolicited chatter

      http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

      jimmyb


        I bought "The Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing" and find the idea of the MAF intriguing, so I decided to give it a try.

         

        I determined my MAF to be 141 bpm. Since I just started, this translate roughly to a 10:30 min/mile pace. I've seen some threads asking what the race pace should be. Shouldn't the question be what should my HR be during the race?

         

        There aren't a lot of clues in the book listed above. On page 92, it has a table comparing MAF pace to 5K race pace. Clearly, you're supposed to run faster than your MAF during a 5K race. But no guidelines are provided as to what HR we should aim for.

         

        There is a table on page 51 titled "Table indicating how much aerobic and anaerobic energy is used during competition of varying length". For example, a race that lasts roughly 1 minute is 70% anaerobic and 30% aerobic; 2 minutes is 50% anaerobic and 50% aerobic. When we get to 60 minutes, it's 2% anaerobic and 98% aerobic.

         

        Based on that table, I'm going to assume that the more aerobic the race, the closer race pace will be to MAF pace. I don't recall the exact page in the book, but it mentions something to the effect that a race as long as the Hawaii Ironman should not be run faster than MAF pace, so that corroborates my assumption. Additionally, the book also mentions that we should treat races as part of our anaerobic workout.

         

        Is there another Maffetone book or link that provides guidelines for pace or HR during various types of races? I'm familiar with the calculators provided by Macmillan and Daniels. But are they valid for the MAF pace?

         

        Ron's suggestion for the Team Oregon Pace Wizard is a good one. I find the HR's to be close for various races (within a few beats). You need to know your MHR. There are always anomalous people, and calculators and the such won't apply. (to find if your anomalous, visit AM_I_A_MITOCHONDRIAL_OUTCAST.com).

         

        Other ways are to wear your HRM in races for awhile and see what you get. Don't run by HR, just record the data. You can use both the Team Oregon Pace Wizard and the MCMillan calculators to help zero in on pacing for races.

         

        The idea with MAF training is to get as fast as possible at your MAF (aerobic speed), while remaining healthy. Mark Allen did do his Ironman's at or below MAF. He got really fast at his MAF (5:00's, after starting in the 8:00's), which mean he was using a boat load of fat in his fuel mix, which gave him great endurance.

         

        The faster you get at MAF, the faster all your endurance races become. The more fat in fuel mix as opposed to sugar, the less stress on the body.

         

        GOod luck!

        --Jimmy

        Log    PRs

          Unless your aerobic endurance is great you will not run Maff HR at  a 10:30 pace or even close to it. Do a Maff test. Look under FAQ. Use the Team Oregon pace wizard for HRs.

           

           

           

          I disagree. my aerobic endurance definitely needs a lot of work but I can do 10:30 at MAF HR (even if I use 180-age MAF!).

           

          but I guess everything is subjective. I would call 8:00 MAF pace great but not 10:30... someone else may say someone with 10:30 MAF is an aerobigod.

            Based on that table, I'm going to assume that the more aerobic the race, the closer race pace will be to MAF pace. I don't recall the exact page in the book, but it mentions something to the effect that a race as long as the Hawaii Ironman should not be run faster than MAF pace, so that corroborates my assumption. Additionally, the book also mentions that we should treat races as part of our anaerobic workout.

             

             

             

            yeah ultrarunning would be close... half marathon will be run at much higher HR's.

             

            example: 180-age for me: 153. half marathon HR up at 190.


            Consistently Slow

              I disagree. my aerobic endurance definitely needs a lot of work but I can do 10:30 at MAF HR (even if I use 180-age MAF!).

               

              but I guess everything is subjective. I would call 8:00 MAF pace great but not 10:30... someone else may say someone with 10:30 MAF is an aerobigod.

               Have you done a maff test that has you under 10:30 for the 1st mile? 180-age.

              Run until the trail runs out.

              2013***1500 miles

              50 miler

              Race Less Train More

               

              Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

              "The Marble in The Groove"

               

              unsolicited chatter

              http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

              zonykel


                These are the results of a MAF test I ran today. They may be skewed because I started in the evening, when the sun was still up. Half the track had sunlight, and the other half had shade. I noticed my HR went up a little bit in the sunny areas and went down in the shady areas. By the time I ran the last two miles or so, it was all shady. I adjusted speed accordingly to stay under MAF HR of 141.

                 

                Warmed up slowly for 1 mile in12:37.

                 

                MAF test:

                Mile       Time   Avg HR      Max HR     Avg Cadence

                Mile 1:   9:42   136 bpm   142 bpm   90 rpm

                Mile 2:   9:57   136 bpm   142 bpm   90 rpm

                Mile 3:   9:57   136 bpm   141 bpm   90 rpm

                Mile 4:   9:58   137 bpm   141 bpm   90 rpm

                Mile 5:   9:58   138 bpm   142 bpm   90 rpm

                 

                Cooled down slowly for 12:42 bringing my HR down.

                 

                I think the mile 1 speed is a bit too fast because my starting HR was too low (close to 120 bpm), so I had to go faster at the beginning to bring my HR close to MAF.


                Consistently Slow

                  These are the results of a MAF test I ran today. They may be skewed because I started in the evening, when the sun was still up. Half the track had sunlight, and the other half had shade. I noticed my HR went up a little bit in the sunny areas and went down in the shady areas. By the time I ran the last two miles or so, it was all shady. I adjusted speed accordingly to stay under MAF HR of 141.

                   

                  Warmed up slowly for 1 mile in12:37.

                   

                  MAF test:

                  Mile       Time   Avg HR      Max HR     Avg Cadence

                  Mile 1:   9:42   136 bpm   142 bpm   90 rpm

                  Mile 2:   9:57   136 bpm   142 bpm   90 rpm

                  Mile 3:   9:57   136 bpm   141 bpm   90 rpm

                  Mile 4:   9:58   137 bpm   141 bpm   90 rpm

                  Mile 5:   9:58   138 bpm   142 bpm   90 rpm

                   

                  Cooled down slowly for 12:42 bringing my HR down.

                   

                  I think the mile 1 speed is a bit too fast because my starting HR was too low (close to 120 bpm), so I had to go faster at the beginning to bring my HR close to MAF.

                   16 sec drift. Wow. Great job

                  Run until the trail runs out.

                  2013***1500 miles

                  50 miler

                  Race Less Train More

                   

                  Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                  "The Marble in The Groove"

                   

                  unsolicited chatter

                  http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                     Have you done a maff test that has you under 10:30 for the 1st mile? 180-age.

                     

                    yes =P

                       16 sec drift. Wow. Great job

                       

                       

                      what's the big deal about that...I can do that kind of very low drift myself at 180-age. can't do it at 180-age+10 though..

                        These are the results of a MAF test I ran today. They may be skewed because I started in the evening, when the sun was still up. Half the track had sunlight, and the other half had shade. I noticed my HR went up a little bit in the sunny areas and went down in the shady areas. By the time I ran the last two miles or so, it was all shady. I adjusted speed accordingly to stay under MAF HR of 141.

                         

                        Warmed up slowly for 1 mile in12:37.

                         

                        MAF test:

                        Mile       Time   Avg HR      Max HR     Avg Cadence

                        Mile 1:   9:42   136 bpm   142 bpm   90 rpm

                        Mile 2:   9:57   136 bpm   142 bpm   90 rpm

                        Mile 3:   9:57   136 bpm   141 bpm   90 rpm

                        Mile 4:   9:58   137 bpm   141 bpm   90 rpm

                        Mile 5:   9:58   138 bpm   142 bpm   90 rpm

                         

                        Cooled down slowly for 12:42 bringing my HR down.

                         

                        I think the mile 1 speed is a bit too fast because my starting HR was too low (close to 120 bpm), so I had to go faster at the beginning to bring my HR close to MAF.

                         

                         

                        very nice pace. I'm envious of it. Smile never had 180-age let alone 180-age-5 in the 9's... I note you were doing this test at MAF-5... why?

                        zonykel


                          very nice pace. I'm envious of it. Smile never had 180-age let alone 180-age-5 in the 9's... I note you were doing this test at MAF-5... why?

                           

                          It wasn't by design. Every time I hit a HR of 141, I'd slow down. But it was hard to maintain a steady speed that kept the HR constant. As I mentioned, temperature did have an effect, as half the track was sunny and the other half not. I'll have to try doing the MAF test when conditions are more ideal.

                           

                          One thing I noticed is that when I run outisde the track, say near my house where it's hilly, I don't hit those paces. Most of the time my pace is in the 10:30, 11:00 and even 12:00, depending on how steep the hill is.