Low HR Training

Maffetone Method Support Thread (Read 3155 times)

jimmyb


port-a-bella-potty

    I've been yearning for a Maffetone Method training specific support thread for those here in the LHRT forum who are actually using the method: doing regular MAF tests, making adjustments, MAF aerobic and anaerobic phases, etc. I want this to be specifically for reporting and discussing things happening in your Maffetone training. Let's avoid lengthy hijacking.

     

    On whining:  you get two whiney posts (always a base phase and/or newbie phenomenon). After that, suck it up.

     

    Anaerobic phase discussion as it pertains to the Maffetone Method is okay. 

     

    I'll keep adding to this first post as I think of things to add. Excuse the inevitable redirection to the first post when I do.

     

    Keep going!

    --Jimmy

    Cool

     

    Important Support Links:

     

    Dr. Phil Maffetone's Website

    The 180-Formula

    Dr. Phil's Forum

    The Big Book Of Endurance Training And Racing (Dr. Phil's newest book)

    Mark Allen On Base Training

    Mark Allen On Heart Rate Training

    Mark Allen's Training When He Was Champ

    Formationflier's Boilerplate

    Formationflier's LHRT FAQ

    Interview with Dr. Phil Maffetone

     

    Interviews with Dr. Phil Maffetone:

    Ben Greenfield interviews Dr. Phil --(podcast 24:30--57:43) covers the development of the method, how it works, and the stages of overtraining.

    Interview with Dr. Phil Maffetone (article)

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    jimmyb


    port-a-bella-potty

      I'll go first. Here's what is happening as of late:

       

      After a lengthy race/anaerobic phase,  my MAF test paces finally started regressing, as well as my training paces. I made an adjustment to my MAF. I decided to start again as if a newbie, and just took 180-age - 5 beats (for the regression). This resulted in a 126 bpm MAF.  I had been using 133 bpm for a few years. I also entered an aerobic base phase, running everything at my MAF, using a small zone of 124-126 for everyday running, and trying to stay on MAF specifically for tests. My body responded well. My most recent MAF test showed progress of about 24 seconds per mile ( a 3% improvement) for the whole run, and 34 seconds in the first mile (4.5% improvement). I'm slowly building volume by 15-20 minutes per week, and taking a cut-back week every 4th week. Using a hard/easy schedule.

       

      THis is the first base phase that I've run everything at MAF. In the past, I have used wide zones (e.g. MAF -20 to MAF). Dr. Phil has mentioned in his books and on this forum that if you are using his method, you should spend as much time as possible at your MAF. I thought I'd give this a try.

       

      I plan a 16-week base phase, followed by a spring race season.

       

      Anyone else in an aerobic base phase right now?

       

      --Jimmy

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        Anyone else in an aerobic base phase right now?

         

        This is timely, since most of us are probably getting ready start a base phase or we have already started one. 

         

        I plan on starting a base phase and I have to admit, I know it is a good idea to do this base phase at MAF pace, but I am tempted to use an "easy" pace vs the MAF pace.  What I mean is that my MAF HR is about 132, but last year I liked running my easy runs in the high 130s and low 140s sometimes.

         

        I still have not decided yet.  Do we get those three whines, if we do decide to do a MAF base phase.  Smile  I think this is already my first whine.

          I had some whines myself in my own case study thread I think? Smile I'm going to follow i.e. read this thread with great interest but won't be able to write/contribute much with my different training right now. no hijacking from my part Smile

          jimmyb


          port-a-bella-potty

            Greg,

             

            I've made a unilateral decision--again: 2 whines.  Self-policing. After two, accept it and keep moving!

             

            --Jimmy

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            jdazzle


              Just started my base phase for the summer tri season, then hopefully transitioning to a late fall marathon (first one, let's hope for an injury free year!).  It just so happens that the weather here has been rather icy and I've had to use my health club's indoor track.  While boring, it is really the first time I'm doing any sort of MAF testing.  Monday's night was faster than tonight's run, but what I thought was interesting was that my last four miles tonight were within 10 seconds of each other (12:49, 12:57, 12:58, 12:51).  That last mile confused me... Oh well.  So the plan is to stay under MAF for all three sports for the next 12 weeks, then transitioning to a set of build periods.

               

              Two questions.

               

              1.  In my reading, I've noticed that there seems to be a minimum number of miles required before MAF training is beneficial.  My base training weeks range anywhere from 8 to 11.5 hours of training per week.  Would this be considered enough training time to fully realize MAF training benefits?

               

              2.  If you have 5 hours to dedicate to running, knowing that you have to fit in 5-6 other sport specific workouts in during the week, is it better to have a 2.5-3 hour long run, a 1.5 hour run, and a 1 hour run, or would it be better to run four days per week with a few shorter runs?

               

              Thanks!

              jimmyb


              port-a-bella-potty

                Just started my base phase for the summer tri season, then hopefully transitioning to a late fall marathon (first one, let's hope for an injury free year!).  It just so happens that the weather here has been rather icy and I've had to use my health club's indoor track.  While boring, it is really the first time I'm doing any sort of MAF testing.  Monday's night was faster than tonight's run, but what I thought was interesting was that my last four miles tonight were within 10 seconds of each other (12:49, 12:57, 12:58, 12:51).  That last mile confused me... Oh well.  So the plan is to stay under MAF for all three sports for the next 12 weeks, then transitioning to a set of build periods.

                 

                Two questions.

                 

                1.  In my reading, I've noticed that there seems to be a minimum number of miles required before MAF training is beneficial.  My base training weeks range anywhere from 8 to 11.5 hours of training per week.  Would this be considered enough training time to fully realize MAF training benefits?

                 

                2.  If you have 5 hours to dedicate to running, knowing that you have to fit in 5-6 other sport specific workouts in during the week, is it better to have a 2.5-3 hour long run, a 1.5 hour run, and a 1 hour run, or would it be better to run four days per week with a few shorter runs?

                 

                Thanks!

                 

                Hey Dazz,

                 

                1. There is no specific minimum load, but there is one if you want to see progress. I've seen progress running 20-30 miles per and 4-6 hours per. No one can say what your optimum load is, but your MAF tests will help you either bump up the volume, or cut it. Start out at a volume that you know won't drive you to the DL, then start building time or miles from there.

                 

                2. I really don't know how what the best thing is to do for triathlons. I imagine that  the rules of recovery still apply. See if Mark Allen's website has any clues for you. Perhaps, he can help you at a minimal expense. Hopefully, there are some other tri people hanging out that can help with this.

                 

                WHat kind of triathlon do you do?

                 

                --Jimmy

                 

                 

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                jimmyb


                port-a-bella-potty

                  Dazz,

                   

                  I was just looking at Training For Endurance, and there is an aerobic schedule in there  that a triathlete used, who improved from 9:45 to 7:10 in the MAF test. In his fourth year of a winter base schedule. He ran 4 times (45, 90, 60, 60), swam 4 times (45, 60, 60, 45), and biked 3 times (120, 180, 120). Quoted from Training For Endurance, by Dr.  Phil Maffetone, ©2000, chapter 11, page 94 (click link to read his most current and in print books and info):

                   

                  MON:

                  6am  45 minute swim

                  5:30 pm 45 minite run

                   

                  TUES:

                  6am  1 hour  swim at MAF

                  5:30 pm 2 hour bike (Aerobic Intervals)

                   

                  WED:

                  6am 90 minute run at MAF

                   

                  THURS:

                  6am 1 hour swim at MAF

                   

                  FRIDAY;

                  6am 1 hour downhill run

                   

                  SATURDAY

                  8am 3 hour bike

                  4:30pm  easy 45  minute swim

                   

                  Sunday

                  8am two hour bike , followed by a 1 hour run.

                   

                  All is MAF or below. 

                   

                  Not sure if this is too heavy for you, but it might give you some ideas on how to structure.

                   

                  --Jimmy

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                  Chicago RnR 1/2 Marathon

                    Hi everyone!  I started running in 2007 using the C25k program.  Since then, I have had a love/hate relationship with running.  In 2009 I did complete 2 half marathons, but I've also been in/out of PT for a number of reasons.  So, at the start of this year, I decided to really slow it down and give this a try.  Over the last 11 days I have been doing a run/walk at 3.5 mph and monitoring my HR.  As soon as I start "running", my HR jumps.  After you started this particular thread, I finally decided OK - I'll walk if I have to, but will really give this a try. 

                     

                    My MAF is 127.  I have a lot of work to do, but here is my first MAF test from this morning's walk:

                     

                    Dist.    Time            Pace    Avg HR    Max HR   Notes
                    1 Mi    16:03.25    16:04       100           126       warmup
                    1 Mi    14:22.73    14:23       127           132
                    1 Mi    15:02.22    15:03       127           132
                    1 Mi    15:18.97    15:19       126           130
                    0.5 Mi    8:08.15    16:17      122           128       cooldown

                    C-R


                      Good idea Jimmy. I will enjoy lurking here since I am doing a hybrid for my training up to Boston but after April I will be in a pure MAF training mode.

                       

                      Keep it rolling.


                      "He conquers who endures" - Persius
                      "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

                      jimmyb


                      port-a-bella-potty

                        Hi everyone!  I started running in 2007 using the C25k program.  Since then, I have had a love/hate relationship with running.  In 2009 I did complete 2 half marathons, but I've also been in/out of PT for a number of reasons.  So, at the start of this year, I decided to really slow it down and give this a try.  Over the last 11 days I have been doing a run/walk at 3.5 mph and monitoring my HR.  As soon as I start "running", my HR jumps.  After you started this particular thread, I finally decided OK - I'll walk if I have to, but will really give this a try. 

                         

                        My MAF is 127.  I have a lot of work to do, but here is my first MAF test from this morning's walk:

                         

                        Dist.    Time            Pace    Avg HR    Max HR   Notes
                        1 Mi    16:03.25    16:04       100           126       warmup
                        1 Mi    14:22.73    14:23       127           132
                        1 Mi    15:02.22    15:03       127           132
                        1 Mi    15:18.97    15:19       126           130
                        0.5 Mi    8:08.15    16:17      122           128       cooldown

                         

                        Hey Jan,

                         

                        Welcome to the thread. 

                        I've been in the land of run/walk/run/walk. You'll get faster and you'll be running everything before you know it. with

                        a greater probability of staying healthy. My MAF is currently 126, so we are in the same ballpark.

                         

                        Looking at your running log, looks like you are scheduling your runs smartly, with a hard day/easy day set-up. You already have

                        a solid  volume of 5 hours per week. 

                         

                        Remember to spend time at your MAF during every run.

                         

                        Keep us posted!

                        --Jimmy

                        Cool

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                        jimmyb


                        port-a-bella-potty

                          Good idea Jimmy. I will enjoy lurking here since I am doing a hybrid for my training up to Boston but after April I will be in a pure MAF training mode.

                           

                          Keep it rolling.

                           

                          Norm's watching us, people. Let's be on our best behavior.

                          Although, people from his land like a lot of humor, so let's not disappoint.

                          --Jimmy

                           

                          P.s. hey, Norm

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                          Chicago RnR 1/2 Marathon

                             

                            Hey Jan,

                             

                            Welcome to the thread. 

                            I've been in the land of run/walk/run/walk. You'll get faster and you'll be running everything before you know it. with

                            a greater probability of staying healthy. My MAF is currently 126, so we are in the same ballpark.

                             

                            Looking at your running log, looks like you are scheduling your runs smartly, with a hard day/easy day set-up. You already have

                            a solid  volume of 5 hours per week. 

                             

                            Remember to spend time at your MAF during every run.

                             

                            Keep us posted!

                            --Jimmy

                            Cool

                            Thanks, Jimmy. 

                             

                            Any thoughts on how much I should be at MAF vs 10 to 20 beats below MAF? 

                            C-R


                               

                              Norm's watching us, people. Let's be on our best behavior.

                              Although, people from his land like a lot of humor, so let's not disappoint.

                              --Jimmy

                               

                              P.s. hey, Norm

                               

                              Oh hey Jimmy!

                               

                              Contrary to popular scuttlebut, I am not the LHR hall cop so please feel free to mingle to your hearts content.

                               

                              And yes, my tribe does enjoy humor very much. Groucho Marx is our patron Saint.


                              "He conquers who endures" - Persius
                              "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

                              jimmyb


                              port-a-bella-potty

                                Thanks, Jimmy. 

                                 

                                Any thoughts on how much I should be at MAF vs 10 to 20 beats below MAF? 

                                 

                                Dr. Phil has written, and also said on this forum (he visits from time to time) that you want to spend at least a portion of each run at MAF, if not the greater portion. He says you'll see your greatest progress if you do.  It can be difficult to stay right on the number, so a small zone of a few beats is just fine (eg. 125-127). I'm using a zone of 124-126 (MAF is 126). I've seen some here use 5 beats (eg 122-127) to stay close.

                                 

                                --Jimmy

                                 

                                 

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