Low HR Training

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walk/run vs walk faster (Read 945 times)

TimButterfield


    Since I am still in the early part of my base building and still quite out of shape, I cannot run (very far) and still keep my HR low.  So, I have a few possibilities, alternate walking and running, walk faster, or run and gradually slow the speed until I have to walk.  I've done each of these and they result in quite different HR graphs.  Here are a some examples: walk/run, walk, gradually slowing run


    The walk is at a pace just slightly faster than the walk/run.  When looking at the graph of HR (averaged at 1 data point) vs Duration, the walk/run shows distinct up/down swings of HR.  In the walk only graph, the up/down swings are much shorter, staying much closer to the average HR.  These were both outside following similar routes around my neighborhood, though a bit longer on the walk.  The gradually slowing run was on a treadmill, which may not be calibrated correctly.  I just hit the lap button on my GPS watch at the mile marks.


    My questions is about moving forward.  As my fitness level increases, I expect to see my  HR drop and will need to increase my level of exertion to keep my HR at the same relative level.  I can increase the run part of the run/walk, but still have the wide swings of HR as I switch between running and walking.  Or, I can just walk even faster, maybe more in the style of race walking.  What's the best way to move through this walk/run borderline while base building?  Is one way necessarily better than the other or does averaging the HR make it not really matter?  Thanks.


    Tim


    Consistently Slow

      I tend to run/walk until HR drops back into range. While on vacation the 1st part of the month I discovered I could walk a 14:30 mile. Walked the hall way of the cruise ship@4 AM. This morning I manage a 13:02 mile walking outside. HR 112/122. Adjust maff 121.

       

      Back to your question. I do not think it makes a difference as long as you are under maff. I usually pull a muscle when walking so I would do a survival shuffle.

      Type Distance Time Total Time Pace Avg HR Max HR Notes
      Interval 1 Mi 14:08.3 14:08.3 14:09 105 114  
      Interval 1 Mi 13:01.28 27:09.58 13:02 112 122  down grade
      Interval 0.76 Mi 10:08.79 37:18.37 13:22 116 127

      Run until the trail runs out.

      2014***1500 miles 09/28/14

      50miler 13:26:18

      Race Less Train More

       Pistol 100 ----01/03/15

      Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

      "The Marble in The Groove"

       

      unsolicited chatter

      http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

      GMoney


        Agreed with runerclay on staying below MAF.  If you are interested in progress then consider monthly MAF tests to see whether you're developing aerobic capacity or hindering it.  Other than that, as long as you stay below MAF you should progress regardless of the modality.  I spent several months stationary biking to develop my aerobic speed and my running improved tremendously.

         

        The one other thing I would note is that, from your charts, it seems like you're not warming up enough in the run workouts.  in your run/walk work out you were near 140 bpm less than 5 minutes after starting.  That might not be enough warm up.  The slowing run is better but it still gets to the target heart rate relatively quickly.  I'd also note that your charts don't show any cool down.  I presume that's because you stop your HRM when you stop "the workout," but don't forget to cool down.  Ease your body down, don't just drop it.

        TimButterfield


          Thanks for the info.  I'll try to do more walking and less walk/run until my fitness improves and I have trouble making the walks even faster.  It does seem to provide the more stable HR trending of the methods.


          I did measured warm up and cool down periods last Sunday, but the duration was longer.  For shorter durations, I normally skipped it as the workout would consist of a warm up and a cool down and nothing else.  I wasn't sure how effective that would be.  I would like to work up to daily hour long workouts.  I've also switched to a morning workout.  After that, I have the rush of showering and getting ready to work that keep my HR from dropping too quickly.  I also switched from the treadmill to outside a while back.  I think outside on neighborhood streets/sidewalks, especially this time of year with ice and slush and with traffic most times, getting consistent results will be a problem.  I need to find another steady state environment to do a monthly workout on as a MAF test.  Maybe an indoor 1/10 mile track will do or hop back on the treadmill.


          Thanks again.


          DrPhil


            Thanks for the info.  I'll try to do more walking and less walk/run until my fitness improves and I have trouble making the walks even faster.  It does seem to provide the more stable HR trending of the methods.


            I did measured warm up and cool down periods last Sunday, but the duration was longer.  For shorter durations, I normally skipped it as the workout would consist of a warm up and a cool down and nothing else.  I wasn't sure how effective that would be.  I would like to work up to daily hour long workouts.  I've also switched to a morning workout.  After that, I have the rush of showering and getting ready to work that keep my HR from dropping too quickly.  I also switched from the treadmill to outside a while back.  I think outside on neighborhood streets/sidewalks, especially this time of year with ice and slush and with traffic most times, getting consistent results will be a problem.  I need to find another steady state environment to do a monthly workout on as a MAF test.  Maybe an indoor 1/10 mile track will do or hop back on the treadmill.


            Thanks again.


            Tim,

            I think you've come to good conclusions after some great input from others. The lack of warm up and cool down is a problem, and yes, if all you do is warm up and cool down for a workout, it still provides great benefits.

             

            I'm also wondering if that starting heart rate of around 100 is typical for you? Is is due to just being out of shape, or do you have other problems?(Don't mean to get too personal.)

             

            Keep it simple. Just workout, following your heart rate -- whether you walk, walk-run or whatever, is up to you (how you feel, what your body is willing to do that day, etc.). Your idea of learning to walk faster is a good one, because you'll incorporate a lot of small aerobic muscle fibers by doing that, which are great for burning fat. In your transition to running, this could be a good idea. For example, walk one day, walk-run the next, etc. As you get to the point where you can't walk fast enough to get the heart rate up, you'll be ready to run more.

             

            Keep up the good work.

             

            Phil

            GMoney



               

              I'm also wondering if that starting heart rate of around 100 is typical for you? Is is due to just being out of shape, or do you have other problems?(Don't mean to get too personal.)

               

              Dr. Phil -

               

              Your question to Tim was interesting for me to read since my situation is very similar situation to his.  My resting heart rate is generally in the mid 50s, but I hit the mid 90s simply walking around leisurely.  Mid 90s is about 40 bpm below my MAF.  Since it is also under 50% of my lab tested maximum heart rate I hadn't given the difference a thought until reading your reply.  Is a starting heart rate in the range of Tim's and mine unusual?  Is a high starting heart rate or a steep differential between resting heart rate and starting heart rate the sign of a possible problem?  Out of shape is one cause you mention, but are excess stress or excess stimulation of the parasympathetic nervous system also possible causes?  What might be some of the "other problems" to which you alluded that would give rise to that condition?

               

              Many thanks.

              G

              jimmyb


                G,

                 

                How hard are you walking when you start?

                 

                I can start walking around 2.2 mph and my HR will be in the 60's. If I increase speed every 30 seconds, getting to 4.2 mph after 10 minutes, my HR will be about 95-100. My MAF is 133.

                 

                Seems to me, how fast you are walking in the beginning is a factor. Speed must be taken into account.

                 

                 

                --Jimmy

                 

                Log    PRs

                GMoney


                  Hey, Jimmy.  I'm walking very easily.  Not power walking.  Just gentle relaxed walking at my usual, everyday, not working out pace.  For instance - after I started typing this reply I stood up walked to the next room at my usual pace, got my HRM, wet the chest strap, walked back and sat down.  My HR at the end of that - 96 bpm.  Sitting at the desk now it's now showing 76 bpm.  My heart rate seems to rise really quickly once I get on my feet and drop equally quickly once I sit down.  I have to lie down and relax pretty deeply to get to 56, but I can do it.  Going up a single flight of stairs easily puts me over 100 bpm.  I don't work out on a treadmill or anywhere where I can monitor my speed moment to moment, but based on what I know about the relationship of my heart rate to my pacing I'd guess that 2.2 mph would put me in the low 100s.  4.2 mph would put me around 120ish.  Right now my pace at MAF (135) is around 13 m/m (nearly 5 m/m slower than my marathon pace from last spring).

                  TimButterfield


                     Hi, Dr. Phil.  Thanks for the feedback.

                    I'm also wondering if that starting heart rate of around 100 is typical for you? Is is due to just being out of shape, or do you have other problems?(Don't mean to get too personal.

                    It is close to typical.  I am still quite out of shape.  When I got married twenty some years ago, I weighed 135 lbs, a bit thin for my frame, but I was walking a great deal.  Since then, I have had a desk job as a software developer, sitting in my chair ten to twelve hours a day and getting little to no exercise.  My high weight was last spring at 237 lbs.  That gradually dropped over the year as I exercised.  My weight last night was 209 lbs, the lowest in a long time.  Yea!  Still a ways to go, though.  I'm trying to drop it slowly through lifestyle changes so it doesn't come back.

                     

                    I did have surgery on my sinus and deviated septum a month ago.  That seems well healed now, though.

                     

                    My normal HR when I wake in the morning, before getting out of bed, is about 60.  Just now, sitting in my chair, it was 64.  By the end of my work day, it will probably be around 70 or so.  I think one factor in my high initial HR is how much running around I am doing to try and get ready to exercise.  I'm in a split-level house, going up and down stairs.  This is exacerbated by piling on winter layers and then not getting out of the house soon enough.  My body heat starts rising too soon.  Like with G, low speed walking also raises it quickly  Yesterday, I walked on the treadmill in my basement.  In my 0.25 mile warmup, it was difficult keeping my HR below 100, though the speed was only about 1.8 to 2 mph. I was trying to keeping it to 90, but was unsuccessful.

                     

                    Thanks again.

                     

                    Tim

                    TimButterfield


                      For instance - after I started typing this reply I stood up walked to the next room at my usual pace, got my HRM, wet the chest strap, walked back and sat down.  My HR at the end of that - 96 bpm.  Sitting at the desk now it's now showing 76 bpm.

                       I just did the same test.  After strapping on my HRM and moving around the house just a little, it was up to 93.  Sitting down for a bit, it dropped to back down to 62.  It's moving around the 63 - 70 range as I type this. 

                        I'm also wondering if that starting heart rate of around 100 is typical for you? Is is due to just being out of shape, or do you have other problems?(Don't mean to get too personal.)

                         

                         

                        I'm yet another one for who 100 is pretty typical. Sad unless I'm standing still before starting the warm-up. then I can get it under 80-90. sitting is 60-70 depending on how still and quiet I sit.

                         

                        just an example, yesterday afternoon (thursday) I was very happy to see 98bpm on my polar HRM when walking up to the course where I was going to do my run for that day. to get this 98, I was walking very slow (because I wanted to see if I can get under 100!). and, never in my life have I been able to do any walking under 90-95bpm. I suppose it's because I'm only 27 and had been sedentary for a long time before starting running - no health problems though.

                          Reading about people's HR vs diffrerent types of activity was interesting. I think mine is typical of what I have read here.

                           

                          My HR profile is typcially as follows:

                          55              resting - when I wake, not always
                          60-80        watching tv, sitting at my desk
                          80-100      walking around
                          100-132    fifteen minute warmup to MAF
                          175            5k HR
                          185            maxHR

                           

                          I drink a lot of coffee during the day.  So, I never see a HR of 55 again once my day starts.


                          Consistently Slow

                            Reading about people's HR vs diffrerent types of activity was interesting. I think mine is typical of what I have read here.

                             

                            My HR profile is typcially as follows:

                            55              resting - when I wake, not always
                            60-80        watching tv, sitting at my desk
                            80-100      walking around
                            100-132    fifteen minute warmup to MAF
                            175            5k HR
                            185            maxHR

                             

                            I drink a lot of coffee during the day.  So, I never see a HR of 55 again once my day starts.

                             Mine are about the same. I am on a BP med. Resting HR has gone from 51 to 56 since DR. reduced med dosage.

                            Run until the trail runs out.

                            2014***1500 miles 09/28/14

                            50miler 13:26:18

                            Race Less Train More

                             Pistol 100 ----01/03/15

                            Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

                            "The Marble in The Groove"

                             

                            unsolicited chatter

                            http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                              Reading about people's HR vs diffrerent types of activity was interesting. I think mine is typical of what I have read here.

                               

                              My HR profile is typcially as follows:

                              55              resting - when I wake, not always
                              60-80        watching tv, sitting at my desk
                              80-100      walking around
                              100-132    fifteen minute warmup to MAF
                              175            5k HR
                              185            maxHR

                               

                              I drink a lot of coffee during the day.  So, I never see a HR of 55 again once my day starts.

                               

                               

                              OK, here is my HR profile Smile

                               

                              58-60 - waking HR (it may be less on some days than 58, but I don't bother with measuring it, too much pita for me, and I got all my waking HR values after getting back to bed after I got my HR monitor and water so not truly waking HR)

                              60-70 - sitting (depends on how still I'm sitting)

                              70-90 - standing (again depends on how still I'm standing and this one depends on which day I check too)

                              85-110 - walking around in house (depends which day)

                              95-110 - slow walk in street (depends on day and hey, I managed to do 94 yesterday! and I would have been able to walk slower)

                              120-140 - fast walk (12-14 mins/mile) or warmup

                              193-195 - 5K HR

                              204-206 - max :P

                                 Going up a single flight of stairs easily puts me over 100 bpm. 

                                 

                                Right now my pace at MAF (135) is around 13 m/m (nearly 5 m/m slower than my marathon pace from last spring).

                                 HI GMoney,

                                 

                                I remember your marathon report and training from last year.  You did your training in a way that would have driven me crazy, because I love and need the numbers and stats.  I recall that you paced yourself by feel, and time.  Much of your training consisted of just eating healthy and losing some weight and getting in your miles, and you had a terrific marathon and even during the marathon,you were not interested in your splits, etc.  That was very interesting and fun to follow.  And it sounded like you had a very enjoyable marathon experience.  It sounded like you did not want the stats to interfere with your experience.

                                 

                                So, it is interesting to see that you are into a new year, and this time you are evalutating things using MAF as one of your measurement tools and that you are concerned about your current state of fitness.  You also mentioned in another post that you thought you perhaps did too much anaerobic later in the year?  Just curious what happened from last spring to now.  It sounds like you lost some fitness.  Was it simply from not putting in the miles and taking some time off?  Other factors?  Just curious.

                                 

                                I was also curious about last spring.  Did you know what your MAF pace was last year?  Probably not, since it was all by feel.  It would help in comparing last year to this year.

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