Do you eat on Long Runs ?

When, how long into the LongRun?

What exactly to you eat?

 

............also how long duration are the LongRuns you reference??

Thank you!

Nope

 

long runs are slow enough to burn my fat as I still have plenty of that to fuel myself. I have been mixing up a 20oz. water bottle with HEED lately and drinking that while I run my long runs, but I'm not sure it is needed.

nope, I never bonk like this.. my longest run to date was around 2 and a half hours plus 10-odd mins of warmup. and that run was starting out at MAF+15 (after warmup) and ended nearly at MAF+30.

to answer your other question, my typical long run is around 2 hours, usually at MAF.

so, I never have any kind of bonking in training. and even in the HM race the "bonk" was just about 1) hot sunny day making me get some fever 2) going into full anaerobic mode, it was nothing to do with food/fuel, my heart rate stayed high.

I don't really understand/know why you would need food with a MAF run, I thought one of the advantages of MAF running is you don't get hungry even in the very very long runs if you do it at MAF intensity

however, this is probably partially individual too. as I said I ran the HM at an intensity much higher than MAF (MAF+39 average HR) and I did not need or wish any food.

still... formationflier says in the faq that one of the results of MAF training is you don't rely on food in the long runs anymore.

FrancesRe, a question: do you get the same food dependency if you just do a 2 hour walk?

I don't really understand/know why you would need food with a MAF run....

 

I don't really understand either...

 

 

FrancesRe, a question: do you get the same food dependency if you just do a 2 hour walk?

 

 

I've never walked two hours....I really don't know

My LR are coming up to 2:00, 2:10, 2:20, 2:30 and add 15 minutes WarmUp to that.

I don't know why I got loopy/wonky...I think we all burn almost 50% Sugar at MAF anyway (don't we?)

 

 It's important to remember that everyone's physiology is in a

different state. One person can run at MAF and need

nothing for 3-4 hours, and another needs some carbs

during those first few hours. For some, it will keep you

burning fat. Being able to train without carbs is not on

some higher level of athleticism or health. Many elites

take nutrition during workouts. Personally, if i ever became

an ultra-runner and was out doing some 4+ hour runs, I would

take nutrition.

 

 

 

why does the formationflier faq say that MAF training should eliminate your dependency of carb intake during runs?

 

he said: "You will eliminate as strong of a reliance on carbs during most races, and certainly training runs."

as for 4+ hour runs, you need the calories because nobody can burn 100% fat during exercise so after a while everyone would run out out of the glycogen but we are not talking about ultrarunning now.

 

 

why does the formationflier faq say that MAF training should eliminate your dependency of carb intake during runs?

  Because that is what Formationflyer (Jesse) believed from his own personal experience, and from anecdotal evidence. Stu Mittleman believed the same thing for marathon distance. Though I'm not sure either were talking about "all-out" marathons. In Mittleman's book, it didn't specify how close to LT they were running. I'm not exactly sure at this point how close to LT  Jesse ran either. Jesse wasn't a two marathon a year guy. He ran lots of them, plus ultras, and a mix of shorter races and a few tri's here and there. He ran by heart rate, and he never seemed to have a time goal--whatever he got for that heart rate, he got. Where that heart rate fell in relation to his LT or MAF--I can't say right now. The further away from LT you run, the more glycogen that gets preserved. Or the closer you run to MAF, the longer they hold out. Theoretically, you can get REAL fast at MAF. To the point where running at it for long periods can feel stressful. If you have that much aerobic speed, you can easily run a good marathon and not need a gram of carb. Whether it would be your best probable marathon, I'm not sure. Most likely, you could go way past that distance and not need hit the wall. Again, there always other factors.

 

 

Personally, I've been a two marathon a year guy, running them all-out. Heart rate averaging a little below LT, and running the span of 160 bpm to 195bpm during the race. In the 8 marathons I've run, I've always taken in carbs (after the first two, not until 40 minutes in).

 

In terms of training runs, theoretically almost everyone can develop their fat-burning and aerobic fitness enough to where they don't need the carbs. I don't see any absolute proof about whether or not that is true, or if it is actually the better way to go in the first place. Perhaps,  most would do better taking in carbs at some point in a long run. I've been going on theory, and personally I seem to do okay with the sans-carb approach for my long runs, as of now.

 

--Jimmy

  Because that is what Formationflyer (Jesse) believed from his own personal experience, and from anecdotal evidence. Stu Mittleman believed the same thing for marathon distance. Though I'm not sure either were talking about "all-out" marathons. In Mittleman's book, it didn't specify how close to LT they were running. I'm not exactly sure at this point how close to LT  Jesse ran either. Jesse wasn't a two marathon a year guy. He ran lots of them, plus ultras, and a mix of shorter races and a few tri's here and there. He ran by heart rate, and he never seemed to have a time goal--whatever he got for that heart rate, he got. Where that heart rate fell in relation to his LT or MAF--I can't say right now. The further away from LT you run, the more glycogen that gets preserved. Or the closer you run to MAF, the longer they hold out. Theoretically, you can get REAL fast at MAF. To the point where running at it for long periods can feel stressful. If you have that much aerobic speed, you can easily run a good marathon and not need a gram of carb. Whether it would be your best probable marathon, I'm not sure. Most likely, you could go way past that distance and not need hit the wall. Again, there always other factors.

 

 

 

Personally, I've been a two marathon a year guy, running them all-out. Heart rate averaging a little below LT, and running the span of 160 bpm to 195bpm during the race. In the 8 marathons I've run, I've always taken in carbs (after the first two, not until 40 minutes in).

 

 

In terms of training runs, theoretically almost everyone can develop their fat-burning and aerobic fitness enough to where they don't need the carbs. I don't see any absolute proof about whether or not that is true, or if it is actually the better way to go in the first place. Perhaps,  most would do better taking in carbs at some point in a long run. I've been going on theory, and personally I seem to do okay with the sans-carb approach for my long runs, as of now.

 

--Jimmy

 

 

thanks for the detailed explanation

so it was just from some experience of his, not based on other scientific findings?

 

but I recall reading that if you have your pace right, the glycogen + fat is enough to run the marathon and adding food will not help much, you can't get much calories from it as the marathon distance is too short for that, it mostly helps mentally (brain needs carbs too). I guess the same applies to people taking them for distances less than 30K such as a half marathon. glycogen is definitely enough to run a HM without food.

 

could really be a personal thing too.. for god knows what reason but I hate the idea of having to carry food to eat it during a run and luckily I don't need it either so here mind and body work in sync

 

as for best probable marathon, you would have to ask gebrselassie or radcliffe. my guess is elites still run the marathon below LT but their LT is at a very high HR and that they don't have any real HR drift during the entire marathon after the first couple of miles because it's 99% aerobic stuff.

 

...I think we all burn almost 50% Sugar at MAF anyway (don't we?)

 

 Nope.  It depends on training and (probably) individual physiology / metabolism.

.

My VO2 test says I'm burning 20% sugar (carbs: glycogen) at the tested "deflection point" which I call my "test MAF".

Note - this is 10 to 20 bpm higher than my "formula MAF" with the adjustments, and about 7 - 10 bpm higher than my 180 - age, where the test says I'm burning 17% carbs, 83% fat.

.

Never been lightheaded or woozy - are you hydrating enough and doing electrolyte replacement?

.

Have you read Greg McMillan's description of the 2 kinds of long runs he has his runners do?

.

PS.  No, I don't eat or take in any calories at all on long training runs these days.  In a race sport drinks and water, and in years past sport drink and water on 40+ mile training runs.  Did a 100K in 1979 on just sport drink and ice water (running in the sun, temp got to 85 F in the shade, hence the ice water.)