Low HR Training

1

Strange Training Help! (Read 35 times)

jareckik


    I have been trying to do low heart rate training for about a month now. I was living in Florida when I started. Before this, my normal runs were 9:30-10:30 pace. When I started this training it was 11-12 minute pace if I ran at dusk and up near 14-15 if I ran in the sun during the afternoon in the 90's.

     

    Sunday I moved to Houston Texas. Because it is so hot here I have been doing all my runs around 8pm when the sun is behind the buildings and the temps are in the mid 80s. All of my runs since then have been over 18 minute miles. I am finding it impossible to "run" that slowly. Even run on the hotel treadmill in an air conditioned gym I have to keep the 18+ pace.

     

    Does anyone know what happened to cause this? Please help.

    jimmyb


      I've seen slowing like that in the heat and during periods where I ran while in low-carb/ ketosis (eventually reverses itself as the body learns to use fat). It's not uncommon to see someone slow a lot in the first few months, then have it change direction. Not sure why, but I suspect that when someone switches to the slow-twitch fibers, they get exhausted and it takes awhile before they adapt to the specification.  Not usually from 12 to 18 minute pace, though. A few questions:

       

      --Have you changed your diet at all?

      --How do you feel?

      --Have you increased the time on your feet? Total volume. One thing that can happen, is that when you slow down, you are spending more time on your feet, if you run by miles and not duration. Combine that with summer heat, and it could cause a regression.

      --Any extra stress in your life that you didn't have when you lived in Florida? Abnormal stress can cause this type of regression.

      --Have you ever been anemic? (no need to answer this, but consider the question for yourself). It could be a coincidence with an iron-deficiency.

      --Keeping hydrated?

       

      I mentioned stress. I know when I made a big move to another city, it was very stressful and I slowed down big time at MAF.

       

      --Jimmy

      Log

      jareckik


        Thanks for the help.

         

        1) I haven't consciously changed my diet but I went from meals cooked by my mom to meals cooked en-mass by a hotel.

        2) I feel perfectly fine.

        3) In Florida I was running between 3 and 5 miles per day. Here 2-3 so the time on my feet is the same.

        4) I started a new job and while I don't feel stressed it might be having an effect anyway.

        5) I was concerned about hydration so I kept track and yesterday before running I drank between 80-90 ounces of water.

         

        I think it might be that I have been eating more carbs with dinner here and I am eating around 6 and then running at 8. I will try to run on the hotel treadmill before dinner today and see if this has an effect. As long as no one thinks there is a problem I will just keep pushing through.

         

        I am still in the early stages of MAF where I feel like I am wasting time. At my best I was able to run a 1:50 half-marathon and 4:04 marathon. My heart rate has always been exceptionally high. When I strap the heart rate monitor on and walk out the door I am already over 100bpm.  I keep telling myself that that means MAF will be able to help me a lot.  It was hard to maintain a 12 minute pace and 18 is much much harder.

        jimmyb


          You feel good, so It's probably a combination of all the changes, any stress, the heat and humidity, including going right out after a high-carb dinner and the initial slowing many experience in the first few months. Your like a perfect storm right now!

           

          (On meals and running: I always take at least 3 hours after eating before doing a run--if I can't do that, I skip the meal and eat after the run).

           

          I'm currently slow myself, and it's a combination of a few things. Mainly the southern heat combined with some extra fat I'm carrying right now with a huge diet change I'm acclimating to still, along with some loss of fitness due to life-induced down-time. Big time slowing. I've always slowed immensely at temps over 70°. I have an Irish body that spent all its years, until recently, in New England. It doesn't like running in 80°+ all the time. I acclimate some, but not enough to feel like I'm a heat runner. I have managed some good finishing positions down here in Atlanta in some hot races, after a few years being here and sticking to mainly running at MAF or below, but it'll be a little while before I return to that form. I say all this, because I can relate to the changes, starting all over again, and  rebuilding in a whole new environment. You just have to keep going and sticking with the plan.

           

          One tip is that you shouldn't be afraid to walk instead of run when starting this program.  Especially when you get that slow, and if you can walk faster at the same HR.  I improved at my running MAF when I did a period of just walking at MAF-10. Walking never hurts. Some do a combination of running and walking at first.  Even Mark Allen had to do some walking. It helps.

           

          Keep going!
          --JimmyCool

          Log

          jareckik


            I ran inside on a treadmill before dinner yesterday and the pace was between 15:30 and 16:00. That is a lot better than 18+. According to the equation my MAF might be higher than I have assumed. I am a little concerned because the number I come up with is higher that what I am seeing other people mention in this forum. Please let me know if my new math is correct.

             

            180 - 27(age) = 153

            I have been doing running races and triathlons for the last 2+ years so I can add 5.

            Thus my MAF is 158.

             

            Up to this point I have been trying to stay below 150. Can I shift so I am keeping my heartrate 148-158?

            jimmyb


              Or you can go lower if you wish. Never hurts to go deeper into fat-burning. The lower you go, the higher percentage of your fuel comes from fat. You won't necessarily drop more weight, but you'll be forcing your body to become a fat-burner.

               

              The key to this method is the MAF test, or monitoring your speed at MAF comparing similar runs. Whether you test or just monitor a run, record your weight, temperature of the room or outside, humidity if you can, wind speed, sun or cloudy. It's okay to do MAF test on the TM. I've done all mine over the years on TM, as it takes some of the outdoor variables out of it.

               

              If your aerobic speed is improving, then your training volume and zones are fine. If you plateau or begin to regress, then adjustments might need to be made. Experiment with the 148-158, and if you are making progress, then great.

               

              As far as speed work goes, Dr. Phil suggests waiting until you've built a base, and then only do stuff in the 90% MHR range, which kind of amounts to a cruise interval or LT effort. My experiments have confirmed for me that this effort is enough to prepare for the longer races. Some have done this during the base phase, and have faired well. Others haven't. The MAF test will guide you through all your experiments in training. It never lies.

               

              --Jimmy Cool

              Log

                I ran inside on a treadmill before dinner yesterday and the pace was between 15:30 and 16:00. That is a lot better than 18+. According to the equation my MAF might be higher than I have assumed. I am a little concerned because the number I come up with is higher that what I am seeing other people mention in this forum. Please let me know if my new math is correct.

                 

                180 - 27(age) = 153

                I have been doing running races and triathlons for the last 2+ years so I can add 5.

                Thus my MAF is 158.

                 

                Up to this point I have been trying to stay below 150. Can I shift so I am keeping my heartrate 148-158?

                 

                oh you're the same age I was when I tried this. Smile though I wasn't in the sport for 2 years so I didn't have the chance to add the extra 5. most people here are a bit older, maybe that's why you tend to see lower numbers than that Smile so don't worry.

                 

                what heart rate did you run your half marathon at? (if you had a heart rate monitor on) and what HR were your normal runs done at (the 9:30-10:30 paced ones)?