Low HR Training

5K, 4/28/07 24:16 PR
10K, 5/5/07 49:23 PR
1/2 M, 12/08/07 1:49:34 PR
Marathon, 12/09/06 3:57:37 BQ
50K, 10/04/2009 7:27:00 PB
40M, 4/17/2010 11:20:00 PB


Happy

    I don't know why the data get posted as crazy as that above?


    I ran the same trail loop, same time of the day, same direction, same weather etc as two days ago.  However, something interesting happened on the second loop. My HR went pretty high on a few occasions. It maxed out at 205 bpm. It was not the Garmin's fault - I could actually feel that my heart was working hard. That's what made me look at the wrist watch and that's when I how high the HR was. It stayed in the 190s and 180s for a while - then it went back down in the 140s where I am very comfortable but a little later it went back up into the upper ranges.


    I must have been anaerobic during those parts of the run?!


    Why did it happen? I wasn't running particularly hard or fast - it was hilly and a little uphill but not any more than it was 2 days ago or on the first trip around the same loop. 


    Should I have stopped and walked the HR down?

    I decided not to stop but to keep running and to see what would happen. How long it would take before it would go down etc.


    It makes me wonder how high my HRmax actually is. Though it felt uncomfortable to feel the heart beat in my throat/chest I was not dizzy or breathing particularly hard. My legs were working fairly hard.


    Please, let me know your thoughts on this and if you've experienced similar things. If you are not in your pure below MAF mode how do you react when your HR gets very high? Do you allow yourself to run in the anaerobic zones near HRmax other than in those particular workouts when you aim to become anaerobic?



    5K, 4/28/07 24:16 PR
    10K, 5/5/07 49:23 PR
    1/2 M, 12/08/07 1:49:34 PR
    Marathon, 12/09/06 3:57:37 BQ
    50K, 10/04/2009 7:27:00 PB
    40M, 4/17/2010 11:20:00 PB
    jimmyb


      I don't know why the data get posted as crazy as that above?


      I ran the same trail loop, same time of the day, same direction, same weather etc as two days ago.  However, something interesting happened on the second loop. My HR went pretty high on a few occasions. It maxed out at 205 bpm. It was not the Garmin's fault - I could actually feel that my heart was working hard. That's what made me look at the wrist watch and that's when I how high the HR was. It stayed in the 190s and 180s for a while - then it went back down in the 140s where I am very comfortable but a little later it went back up into the upper ranges.


      I must have been anaerobic during those parts of the run?!


      Why did it happen? I wasn't running particularly hard or fast - it was hilly and a little uphill but not any more than it was 2 days ago or on the first trip around the same loop. 


      Should I have stopped and walked the HR down?

      I decided not to stop but to keep running and to see what would happen. How long it would take before it would go down etc.


      It makes me wonder how high my HRmax actually is. Though it felt uncomfortable to feel the heart beat in my throat/chest I was not dizzy or breathing particularly hard. My legs were working fairly hard.


      Please, let me know your thoughts on this and if you've experienced similar things. If you are not in your pure below MAF mode how do you react when your HR gets very high? Do you allow yourself to run in the anaerobic zones near HRmax other than in those particular workouts when you aim to become anaerobic?



       

      When running, I have seen my Garmin blip out at high HR. It's usually obvious because I haven't changed my pace. If I hit a hill at the same feel, the HR shouldn't go up more than 10 beats or so. If my HRM is showing 190, and it was correct, I would be running 5k pace, and I would know it from my breathing. Your MHR is probably not much higher than 200-205. We are about the same age (I  think you are my elder by a year), my MHR is 198-199. If you were anywhere near a pace producing that HR, your breathing should be considerably more labored. You would be able to tell you were working much harder.

       

      It could be a blipout by the Garmin. Or perhaps you were running fast enough to get your HR that high. If it is not either of those, then consider that your heart might have some temporary problem with its pacemaking.There have been some members of this forum that have had a heart-racing problem during running. I'm not trying to scare you, it's just that you should know if you are running hard enough to produce 200+ beats on the HRM at age 49.

       

      Next time the Garmin does that, stop and take a ten-second pulse on the wrist. Multiply by 6. See if the pulse is in the ballpark. Then the Garmin ain't lying. Try to eliminate the possibility of a heart problem.

       

       In terms of your last question. Whenever I train above MAF, I  still use a HRM and have specific HR's that I'm trying to hit. I will slow down or speed up to keep to my plan. I might be doing Fartlek and I use a zone of 88-90% MHR. I try to stay in there. Or a marathon race pace run, where I'm following a graduated HR plan from 160-175 bpm (for example) for an hour. I try not to exceed the plan. I always have a specific reason for a run, and try to stick to the purpose. I have a specific purpose for this current base period I'm in and I try to stick to it, even if I have to crawl to keep my HR down. It's all about knowing what you are trying to do, why, and either committing to it or not.

       

      --Jimmy


      Happy

        Thanks Jimmy,


        I understand determination and sticking to a plan.


        Today was just an easy run so not supposed to become anaerobic and/or run near HRmax. 

        These occurances have made me wonder if my heart is OK. My brother has a HR valve problem and discovered it during a marathon where he collapsed. I have never had my heart checked.


        It is new to me to train with a HR monitor and to try and find my zones. Other than running below MAF I have never used the HR monitor before. This of course means I don't really know my HRmax or which zones I feel comfortable in for prolonged workouts.


        I did not feel like when I work hard in a 5K - but I did feel the pulse in my neck and upper chest.


        I appreciate your response. I also appreciate knowing that your HRmax is close to 200 - meaning much higher than the standard 220-age, which I have more or less assumed was correct for me. As it turns out it is not near correct for me.

        5K, 4/28/07 24:16 PR
        10K, 5/5/07 49:23 PR
        1/2 M, 12/08/07 1:49:34 PR
        Marathon, 12/09/06 3:57:37 BQ
        50K, 10/04/2009 7:27:00 PB
        40M, 4/17/2010 11:20:00 PB
        lowgear1


        Max McMaffelow Esq.

          Flower,

          I had a similar experience today. My heart rate, according to Garmin went up by 20 bpm within a few paces. I

          had just glanced at it to see126, and seconds later it was 146 on level ground, same pace. I't's not often, but

          I've seen this on several occasions. I'm guessing it's a Garmin issue, but like Jimmy suggests, quickly

          checking your own pulse should put you at ease. Likewise, my MHR is considerably above the classic 220

          minus age. (Thankfully).. I need all  the heart rate "reserve" I can get!

           

          May I suggest a simple program for screen capture? It is fairly easy software to use/understand (the only kind I

          can tolerate). It's also freeware! Take a look at a program called "MWSnap3" from http://www.mirekw.com/ (You

          should see MWSnap3 listed under the "windows freeware" link) It doesn't do a whole lot other than capture the

          screen image, but when dealing with the Garmin interface, that can be a start. (Never could quite do much with

          Garmin data management)

          lg

          ♪ ♫ Hey, hey, we're Maf Monkees And people say we monkey around. ♪ ♫ (The Monkees)
          Give me 12:59 in '09, please. I deserve it! (Maf of course)..No more teens! No more teens! (ME! ME! ME!)
          ♪ ♫ I Thank The Lord For The Night Time...And I Thank The Lord For You ♪ ♫ (Neil Diamond)


          Richmond

            Flower,


            The HR jumps on the Garmin can be interesting, can't they?  I know for me the highest I'd ever seen in a training run was 197, and that was at the top of a half-mile hill toward the end of a 10 mile run.  I was breathing heavy and figured that was probably pretty accurate.


            Of course, in the 5k I ran a couple weeks ago I maxed out at 212 and averaged 199 for the race.  So, assuming the Garmin is accurate, I learned that my max HR is well above the 220-age and I also got a great memory of what it actually feels like to hit it that high.  Now, if i were to see a reading that high during a normal training run, I'd know it probably wasn't accurate.  Of course, that quick 6 second pulse check confirms it.


            I've been meaning to post in here now that I'm doing a bit more than just MAF running, and it's nice to see that you and I are in similar places, Flower.  I have noticed that my body took a liking to slower running, and I am now waking it up after it's 3 month nap.  My runs are going well, and I'm happy.


            I'll post more specifics later.  Good to see you in here.



            Happy


              5K, 4/28/07 24:16 PR
              10K, 5/5/07 49:23 PR
              1/2 M, 12/08/07 1:49:34 PR
              Marathon, 12/09/06 3:57:37 BQ
              50K, 10/04/2009 7:27:00 PB
              40M, 4/17/2010 11:20:00 PB


              Happy

                The above graph is from my Garmin; picture of my HR = blue, and the corresponding elevation = green.


                Thanks so much for responding to my post. I had to hurry out of the house after responding to Jimmy and have not seen the rest until now. I have been worried all day long that something is not quite right in the state of Denmark. I appreciate knowing that it is not uncommon to have a HRmax higher, substantially higher, than the 220-age formula. Unfortunately, I don't think the Garmin is to blame fore the readings today. I think they are a picture of what went on with my heart rate today. I am a little concerned about it. I have talked to my husband about it today so he now knows what is going on with me, my heart, and my running. I think I will stop running if it happens again to see if my body can more easily get the HR back to normal if I don't keep running. If it happens frequently I am going to see a medical professional about it. It would not concern me so much to see high HR readings if I had excerted myself with a hard 5K race pace or hard hill work etc but today I was running an easy run and basically cruising at a moderate HR level and pace. 


                Mile 7-8 is a cooldown run. After 8 miles I am just walking and then driving before I noticed I hadn't pressed the stop button.

                5K, 4/28/07 24:16 PR
                10K, 5/5/07 49:23 PR
                1/2 M, 12/08/07 1:49:34 PR
                Marathon, 12/09/06 3:57:37 BQ
                50K, 10/04/2009 7:27:00 PB
                40M, 4/17/2010 11:20:00 PB


                Richmond

                  The above graph is from my Garmin; picture of my HR = blue, and the corresponding elevation = green.


                  Thanks so much for responding to my post. I had to hurry out of the house after responding to Jimmy and have not seen the rest until now. I have been worried all day long that something is not quite right in the state of Denmark. I appreciate knowing that it is not uncommon to have a HRmax higher, substantially higher, than the 220-age formula. Unfortunately, I don't think the Garmin is to blame fore the readings today. I think they are a picture of what went on with my heart rate today. I am a little concerned about it. I have talked to my husband about it today so he now knows what is going on with me, my heart, and my running. I think I will stop running if it happens again to see if my body can more easily get the HR back to normal if I don't keep running. If it happens frequently I am going to see a medical professional about it. It would not concern me so much to see high HR readings if I had excerted myself with a hard 5K race pace or hard hill work etc but today I was running an easy run and basically cruising at a moderate HR level and pace. 


                  Mile 7-8 is a cooldown run. After 8 miles I am just walking and then driving before I noticed I hadn't pressed the stop button.

                  Flower, the graph wasn't showing and I think this is the one you were linking to. 


                  "Anaerobic" Phase HRT (over MAF) Reports & Discussion (Read 5035 times)

                  GMoney


                    20 miles on the road. No HRM, no watch. Just go run 20 miles on the road and don't worry about all that other stuff. Fabulous spring day for running, and I used it to good advantage. Got my last long run in before the marathon. Corrected nearly all of the problems I had on my 20 miler last Sunday. Doubled the amount of fluid I consumed. Started with Gatorade after 5 miles instead of waiting until 10. Dressed appropriately. Loosened the shoes before I started. Started conservatively - if anything I was too cautious over the first 5 miles. Felt better over the last 5 miles than I did for the first 5 and I finished feeling and (if I may say so) looking good. Basically, I just stopped being a dumbass and It paid off. 18 days until the marathon.


                    Happy

                      Only 18 days out from your marathon - is it time to start tapering or how do you plan to run in the next 2.5 weeks? It's great that your last 20 miler went so well - I saw on the other thread that you are resting and being smart now - good!! I wish you well in the race but expect to hear much more about your preparations and the race itself after the fact. Good Luck.
                      5K, 4/28/07 24:16 PR
                      10K, 5/5/07 49:23 PR
                      1/2 M, 12/08/07 1:49:34 PR
                      Marathon, 12/09/06 3:57:37 BQ
                      50K, 10/04/2009 7:27:00 PB
                      40M, 4/17/2010 11:20:00 PB
                      GMoney


                        Thanks for the kind words. My marathon (Charlottesville) is on April 18. My plan is to do one middle distance run (10-13 miles) roughly ten days before the marathon. Otherwise I'll just stick to the easy stuff and try really hard not to do anything too stupid. I can't honestly call this period a "taper" since - apart from my long runs - only a handful of my workouts during this build up have been longer than 4 miles. With such a low volume of training there's not a lot left for me to taper. I'll do a race report when I'm done and give you all the big picture of my training and race.
                        GMoney


                          Quick 5-K on the trail this morning before a trip. No HRM, no watch. Just me in the forest.
                          GMoney


                            Normally I'm not one for "doubles." Normally I wouldn't "double" over MAF two weeks after a marathon. Normally I wouldn't double over MAF two-weeks after a marathon in my Five Fingers. But sometimes, as Ray Charles used to sing, "You know the nighttime is the right time." 4.15 miles, road, 37:18, AV HR 157 (Pfitz general aerobic zone) The Five Fingers are the big wild card in this equation. I've been wearing them but haven't run in them since the fall. My hope is that the miles I logged in my Nike Frees over the winter were enough to prep me for four miles of barefootin'. Honestly, it felt great. Very free to be running out at night in the warm air.


                            Happy

                              It's my turn to use this thread as I am no longer maffing. I am not yet doing a Brad Hudson 20 week Marathon Build-up but I am increasing mileage while also preparing my body to do some faster running when I am 20 weeks out. Goal Marathon is in mid December - it's far away and hopefully I will be doing some other shorter races in preparation for it.


                              today 6:54 am:


                              Trail, 7mi, 1 hr22min17sec, it was nice - fog early, then clear sunny warmer as the run progressed. Ran easy but not slow - tried to keep the same effort/average pace on the second run around the loop as I did on the first eventhough it felt a little harder. I am not used to maintaining a pace that requires me to work the least bit hard (maffing for 4+ months). Running a pace that is a little faster than usual makes my mind have to wrap itself around this and the fear of not being able to hold it for the entire distance - but it worked out very well today. At the end, I drank water, walked to my "steep hill" and got the Garmin ready to time my 8 sec steep hill sprints. I did 3X8sec steep hill sprints. They are fun to do. It is such a completely new feeling to actually "gun it". I know I have to be careful to gradually transition into them and to recover properly after them so they don't injure me. If I can clear this hurdle the added strength I gain from them will help prevent injury in the near future as I pick up the pace on some of the oncoming marathon preparation runs.




                              Interval 0.5 Mi 6:14.86 6:14.86 12:30 116 135  
                              Interval 0.5 Mi 5:44.68 11:59.54 11:30 128 135  
                              Interval 0.5 Mi 5:47.58 17:47.12 11:36 128 134  
                              Interval 0.5 Mi 6:00.28 23:47.40 12:01 134 143  
                              Interval 0.5 Mi 5:49.91 29:37.31 11:40 135 144  
                              Interval 0.5 Mi 5:53.44 35:30.75 11:47 138 150  
                              Interval 0.5 Mi 5:58.05 41:28.80 11:57 142 149  End of first 3.5 mile loop
                              Interval 0.5 Mi 5:45.96 47:14.76 11:32 139 147  Running same loop again
                              Interval 0.5 Mi 5:38.16 52:52.92 11:17 139 146  
                              Interval 0.5 Mi 5:44.49 58:37.41 11:29 140 143  
                              Interval 0.5 Mi 5:54 1:04:31.41 11:48 143 149  
                              Interval 0.5 Mi 5:53.41 1:10:24.82 11:47 144 150  
                              Interval 0.5 Mi 6:07.61 1:16:32.43 12:16 144 152  
                              Interval 0.5 Mi 5:44.63 1:22:17.06 11:30 147 152  

                              5K, 4/28/07 24:16 PR
                              10K, 5/5/07 49:23 PR
                              1/2 M, 12/08/07 1:49:34 PR
                              Marathon, 12/09/06 3:57:37 BQ
                              50K, 10/04/2009 7:27:00 PB
                              40M, 4/17/2010 11:20:00 PB


                              Happy

                                Interval 0.5 Mi 5:59.32 5:59.32 11:59 120 134  
                                Interval 0.5 Mi 5:50.59 11:49.91 11:42 126 135  
                                Interval 0.5 Mi 5:49.38 17:39.29 11:39 128 134  
                                Interval 0.5 Mi 5:59.53 23:38.82 12:00 135 145  
                                Interval 0.5 Mi 6:02.66 29:41.48 12:06 137 145  
                                Interval 0.5 Mi 6:12.4 35:53.88 12:25 140 152  
                                Interval 0.5 Mi 5:50.36 41:44.24 11:41 142 148  
                                Interval 0.5 Mi 5:45.15 47:29.39 11:31 144 150  
                                Interval 0.5 Mi 5:36.91 53:06.30 11:14 140 150  
                                Interval 0.5 Mi 5:43.66 58:49.96 11:28 142 146  
                                Interval 0.5 Mi 5:58.09 1:04:48.05 11:57 147 193  
                                Interval 0.5 Mi 5:50.03 1:10:38.08 11:41 186 199  
                                Interval 0.5 Mi 5:59.57 1:16:37.65 12:00 177 205  
                                Interval 0.5 Mi 6:24.28 1:23:01.93 12:49 174 195  
                                Interval 0.5 Mi 6:24.53 1:29:26.46 12:50 138 144  
                                Interval 0.5 Mi 6:06.74 1:35:33.20 12:14 138 147  
                                Interval 0.5 Mi 9:09.26 1:44:42.46 18:19 112 141