Low HR Training

"Anaerobic" Phase HRT (over MAF) Reports & Discussion (Read 6049 times)


Happy

    Thanks Yapper, yes, that's the graph - I couldn't figure out how to copy and paste it successfully. How did you find it and how did you paste it in?


    I hope youu are not letting my problems scare you. They are personal and not contageous 

    5K, 4/28/07 24:16 PR 10K, 5/5/07 49:23 PR 1/2 M, 12/08/07 1:49:34 PR Marathon, 12/09/06 3:57:37 BQ 50K, 10/04/2009 7:27:00 PB 40M, 4/17/2010 11:20:00 PB


    Happy

      It's a day later and I have rested today - recovered.

      Hard/Easy for me for now per week means:

      run, no run, run, no run, run, no run, no run = 7 days


      Mentally I have been rattled by my recent new experiences with monitoring HR during my training runs. I have had a little time to think about the HR spikes I experienced yesterday. On the one hand I was/am scared by the experience. On the other hand I am thinking that perhaps my body knows best how to handle my runs and that the high HR was a necessary reaction from my body to something that went on during that training run. What did it react to? I did not switch to a faster pace nor did the course change dramatically in terms of elevation. I am playing detective, trying to figure out what caused the HR spike(s) so I can avoid bringing my body in the same situation again on subsequent easy runs. I am leaning towards thinking that I was dehydrated and or lacking electrolytes. I had not had much to drink that morning and it was extremely humid and it became warmer as time passed on the trail. One of the things I had noticed that morning was that I didn't sweat much - it is not unusual for me not to sweat while running below MAF but when I run a little harder, like I did yesterday, I usually sweat fairly well and get wet all over. I had wiped a little sweat off my lower back but I was otherwise not perspiring much. 


      In conclusion I have decided to become better at drinking during my runs and I have ordered some electrolyte tablets and other "stuff" to experiment with in the near future. 


      %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%


      Tonight I have just started reading this "anaerobic" thread from the beginning post by post - it is very interesting to me to read how other runners  (some of you may still be reading and posting here) have also struggled with and been somewaht alarmed by high HR after switching from below MAF base training to running and racing.

      I also see that Jimmy and all of you guys have used percentages of HRmax and/or HRR in your training runs to determine ideal training zones for different types of training runs. This is exactly like Istvan helped me to find my percentages in another thread recently. I find that it gives me a fresh approach to training since I have otherwise always trained by pace and/or feel. Pace mostly while running on treadmill or track, by feel for easy runs and long runs - just staying with my group. It will be interesting to learn how it feels to run at different HRs and how those HRs correspond with paces for me. I think I will learn a lot from this as I go. I am somewhat overwhelmed but then again I am always overwhelmed when confronted with something new - it will take a little time to become familiar with this.


      Yapper, if you are reading my post, I recommend that you go back to the beginning of this thread and read the old correspondence - it's very informative.


      5K, 4/28/07 24:16 PR 10K, 5/5/07 49:23 PR 1/2 M, 12/08/07 1:49:34 PR Marathon, 12/09/06 3:57:37 BQ 50K, 10/04/2009 7:27:00 PB 40M, 4/17/2010 11:20:00 PB
      GMoney


        Hi Flower -

         

        Looks like you've got the hard/easy thing down.  Now get to work.  Kidding, 

         

        I've avoided weighing in on your heart rate spikes until now.  Not because I'm not interested and sharing your concern (I am and do), but rather, because, I don't want to be an alarmist and get you worked up when most likey it's a "Garmin issue" or the chest strap was just a little bit too dry at the end of the run (especially if you weren't sweating).  Still, have you considered asking a cardiologist (preferably one who's also a runner) about it?  Garmin issues are one thing fibrillation is something different - though not necessarily a cause for alarm.  Hydration and electrolytes are important, for sure, but your health's not worth messing around with.  You might have "graduated" from MAF but I know you're still concerned about your health.

         

        Again, I don't want to be an alarmist.  In all likelihood everything is fine, but when something like that pops up without a clear, obvious explanation it may merit more than diligent at home detective work.


        Happy

          I wish I was a computer-wizz - just HOW do you get the graph from the log posted in here, please help?


          http://www.runningahead.com/logs/995f315d7f584f268ade6033c31aeefa/workouts/f25fbd8e1bb848189376b72d2f4cd029/graph?x=20&y=82&y1c=0000ff&avg=1


          ***************************************************************************


          Long run on the trail this morning at 7 am, ran 10.5ish miles, 2hr5min approx.

          This was 3 x 3.5mile loop. It appears that the 3.5 mile loop is actually a tad shorter than that but I ran close to 10.4 miles according to the Garmin. The rest of it was just cool down.


          I hydrated well and even drank some tomato juice before the run and between each loop - it has sodium and other things. Best thing I had in the pantry that had some salt I can handle (food allergies). Other things are on the way in the mail.


          I felt good this morning - it had rained and it was of course very humid - after all we are in the South in the summer. I am fine with it. I intended to run easy - letting my body decide what felt like an effort I could sustain for 10 miles. The intention was also to run the last 1 to 1.5 miles at a slightly harder effort. This is what Brad Hudson calls a moderate progression run. In my mind I was thinking that I would not do it if I experienced any kind of HR spikes during the first 9 miles but if everything went smoothly until that point I would pick up the pace and push the HR up a little during the last mile. The last mile is uphill - not steeply so.


          Everything went well and I picked up the pace/effort when I thought I was about 1.5 miles out. This was my plan and I stuck with it because I felt good. When I started pushing the pace a little while going uphill the HR started to climb a little, which is what I wanted to see. Most of the easy part of the run I had been in my 130s, 140s and going into the 150s occasionally. So the idea was to push well into the 150s and 160s perhaps even into the 170s during the 1.5 mile harder effort at the end. Well, in the beginning it looked like I was going to stay in the 150s - then I decided I wasn't pushing it hard enough and gave it a little more gas. After that my HR took off and I found that I was getting into 5K territory in terms of HR and the feeling of breathing hard, heart pumping fast etc. MAX HR was 210bpm today. When I saw the 208bpm reading on the monitor I stopped running and walked it down into the 140s before I started running again. I paid attention to my breathing and all kinds of other feedback from the body - it clearly seemed like I knew the feeling from running 5K races in the past. So I knew the HR was correct and that I simply had to slow down and find another gear a little below that and keep running.


          I am really happy after today's run. I think the high HR readings are actually reflecting the effort. I must not have noticed that I had pumped it up Wednesday when I experienced the same thing. Today, I deliberately went into that HR zone and took notice of how it felt to be there. After that, I took it down to a lesser effort than 5K and completed the run.


          Hudson, as far as I have understood, does not train by HR monitor or zones. However, I am thinking that Hudson's intention was/is to get his trainee into running anaerobically at the end of the progression run. Does anyone have any take on this? I would love to know what you think/know.



          5K, 4/28/07 24:16 PR 10K, 5/5/07 49:23 PR 1/2 M, 12/08/07 1:49:34 PR Marathon, 12/09/06 3:57:37 BQ 50K, 10/04/2009 7:27:00 PB 40M, 4/17/2010 11:20:00 PB


          Happy

            Hi Flower -

             

            Looks like you've got the hard/easy thing down.  Now get to work.  Kidding, 

             

            I've avoided weighing in on your heart rate spikes until now.  Not because I'm not interested and sharing your concern (I am and do), but rather, because, I don't want to be an alarmist and get you worked up when most likey it's a "Garmin issue" or the chest strap was just a little bit too dry at the end of the run (especially if you weren't sweating).  Still, have you considered asking a cardiologist (preferably one who's also a runner) about it?  Garmin issues are one thing fibrillation is something different - though not necessarily a cause for alarm.  Hydration and electrolytes are important, for sure, but your health's not worth messing around with.  You might have "graduated" from MAF but I know you're still concerned about your health.

             

            Again, I don't want to be an alarmist.  In all likelihood everything is fine, but when something like that pops up without a clear, obvious explanation it may merit more than diligent at home detective work.

            G, Thank you for your concern and letting me know that you care. You are an awesome person - Thanks so much. I am touched and I know I need to be careful. I promise, I will see a Doctor if it turns out that I do in fact have heart problems. Using the monitor while running will give me much more insight and knowledge that I have ever had before into the workings of my heart. I am shocked to learn that my HRmax is apparently higher than 210 (my max today).  For some reason I always assumed that I was probably someone with a lower than average HRmax (in your mind I always look for explanations of why I'm so slow!#@#%$$#). Can anyone's HRmax be higher than 220?

            5K, 4/28/07 24:16 PR 10K, 5/5/07 49:23 PR 1/2 M, 12/08/07 1:49:34 PR Marathon, 12/09/06 3:57:37 BQ 50K, 10/04/2009 7:27:00 PB 40M, 4/17/2010 11:20:00 PB
            lowgear1


            Max McMaffelow Esq.

              Out of respect for those still working on their Maffness, I feel obligated to post today's run HERE, as opposed

              to  the "Expose" thread. Out of respect for dermatologists I slather on SPF-30 and no longer "work" on my tan.

              I found myself too often in the forbidden zone, as I covered 1.5 miles of warm-up 4 miles of running, and a half

              mile of cool-down....Here, Have a look.......

              lg

              ♪ ♫ Hey, hey, we're Maf Monkees And people say we monkey around. ♪ ♫ (The Monkees)
              Give me 12:59 in '09, please. I deserve it! (Maf of course)..No more teens! No more teens! (ME! ME! ME!)
              ♪ ♫ I Thank The Lord For The Night Time...And I Thank The Lord For You ♪ ♫ (Neil Diamond)
              lowgear1


              Max McMaffelow Esq.

                I wish I was a computer-wizz - just HOW do you get the graph from the log posted in here, please help?

                 

                Now to explain how I  did this.  I HAVE NO IDEA!

                No...I simply went to your log and clicked on workouts. Then clicked your "today's" entry at the very far right highlighted link...clicking on that brings up your data for this run. Now, If I recall, you can click on the "graph" link which brings up another set of options. If you want BOTH pace and hr...be sure to check the appropriate boxes. Now you should see a "Publish" icon. Click it and then when you see the HTML option, copy it (highlight, copy, paste, etc.) Now back to your posting message page paste this (be sure the HTML button is clicked at the bottom of this screen first) Finally, when you complete your message  click "Post" like any other msg. and cross your fingers. You should now see a lovely graph like the one seen here!

                lg

                 

                Powered by RunningAHEAD.com
                ♪ ♫ Hey, hey, we're Maf Monkees And people say we monkey around. ♪ ♫ (The Monkees)
                Give me 12:59 in '09, please. I deserve it! (Maf of course)..No more teens! No more teens! (ME! ME! ME!)
                ♪ ♫ I Thank The Lord For The Night Time...And I Thank The Lord For You ♪ ♫ (Neil Diamond)
                C-R


                  Definitely went anaerobic today. Track intervals - ugh. 8x220s @ 45 sec with 220 active recovery. I forgot my HRM today so I have no clue how high I went but it was up there. Total miles were 4.4 including warm up and cool down at 40 minutes.

                   

                  Funniest part of the run was some local guy walking past the track asked me what I was doing. After I gasped 220s, he yelled "I used to run those in high school and you need to run harder coming out of that last turn. Looked like you were dogging it." I just got called out by some middle aged former high school runner from the 50s with a belly large enough to hold a food tray. One of the funniest things I've seen in a while and got me through the last couple of intervals with a smile.


                  "He conquers who endures" - Persius
                  "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

                  http://ncstake.blogspot.com/

                  theyapper


                  On the road again...

                    Flower - thanks for the suggestion about looking back through the thread.  I had read quite a bit of it when I first poked in here and it really "normalized" my running after MAF.  Seems a lot of us experience very similar things.  As far as the graph, LG explained it correctly.  Let me know if you still have problems and we can try to work you through it.


                    I still haven't posted my workouts here - not for any other reason than I was in such a routine in the Expose thread and now I'm reworking that routine.  I have read through a lot and am constructing my new HR zones to be able to track my runs better.  


                    I am racing a 5k tonight at 9 and am curious to see how the HR and effort matches the one I did about a month ago.  I'll post more after the race.

                    I write. I read. I run. One time, I ran a lot on my 50th birthday.

                    Paul

                    lowgear1


                    Max McMaffelow Esq.

                      I'm with Flower on this one. It's time for a little more vigorous running. I've done my due diligence while training

                      many months at Maf and lower. I intend to proceed cautiously, and hope to see progress as measured by Maf

                      tests and/or comparable route monitoring. This seems totally in keeping with the "program". A retreat to

                      exclusive Maf and under is always available, if I hit a snag. At my age, why not "go for it"? I love Bush senior's

                      attitude.."Let er rip!"

                      Today is my rest day. No running, skipping, jumping. No "Brown Eyed Girl" (hey, hey).

                      lg

                      ♪ ♫ Hey, hey, we're Maf Monkees And people say we monkey around. ♪ ♫ (The Monkees)
                      Give me 12:59 in '09, please. I deserve it! (Maf of course)..No more teens! No more teens! (ME! ME! ME!)
                      ♪ ♫ I Thank The Lord For The Night Time...And I Thank The Lord For You ♪ ♫ (Neil Diamond)


                      Happy

                        I'm with Flower on this one. It's time for a little more vigorous running. I've done my due diligence while training

                        many months at Maf and lower. I intend to proceed cautiously, and hope to see progress as measured by Maf

                        tests and/or comparable route monitoring. This seems totally in keeping with the "program". A retreat to

                        exclusive Maf and under is always available, if I hit a snag. At my age, why not "go for it"? I love Bush senior's

                        attitude.."Let er rip!"

                        Today is my rest day. No running, skipping, jumping. No "Brown Eyed Girl" (hey, hey).

                        lg

                         

                        LG, You sound good - upbeat and healthy. Having fun?! Thank you for your support - I soak it up like a dry sponge 

                        I appreciate your step-by-step explanation of how to post the graph. I will try using that HTML button on the bottom of the page before I paste the long line that I get from using the PUBLISH button in the training log. Thanks again and enjoy your rest day.

                        5K, 4/28/07 24:16 PR 10K, 5/5/07 49:23 PR 1/2 M, 12/08/07 1:49:34 PR Marathon, 12/09/06 3:57:37 BQ 50K, 10/04/2009 7:27:00 PB 40M, 4/17/2010 11:20:00 PB
                        wbr


                          Funniest part of the run was some local guy walking past the track asked me what I was doing. After I gasped 220s, he yelled "I used to run those in high school and you need to run harder coming out of that last turn. Looked like you were dogging it." I just got called out by some middle aged former high school runner from the 50s with a belly large enough to hold a food tray. One of the funniest things I've seen in a while and got me through the last couple of intervals with a smile.

                           

                          Hey Carmel,

                           

                          Funny story. We old guys are sometimes "legends in our own minds."

                           

                          Bob

                          BeeRunB


                            All you guys are behaving like women in a tribe whose menstrual cycles get in synch. All at once, everyone around here has left the base phase and has gone anaerobic. Make sure you wear your MAF test anaerobipads.

                             

                            --Jimmy

                             

                             


                            lowgear1


                            Max McMaffelow Esq.

                              All you guys are behaving like women in a tribe whose menstrual cycles get in synch. All at once, everyone around here has left the base phase and has gone anaerobic. Make sure you wear your MAF test anaerobipads.

                               

                              --Jimmy

                               

                               


                               

                              Reaching post-menopause has been an exciting time for me. Liberating on the one hand, yet all the while

                              experiencing hot flashes. And, "Oh My, The Vapours!" DVDs like "Gone with the Wind" seem to trigger a

                              spell..... Oh dear, here I go again....

                              lg
                              ♪ ♫ Hey, hey, we're Maf Monkees And people say we monkey around. ♪ ♫ (The Monkees)
                              Give me 12:59 in '09, please. I deserve it! (Maf of course)..No more teens! No more teens! (ME! ME! ME!)
                              ♪ ♫ I Thank The Lord For The Night Time...And I Thank The Lord For You ♪ ♫ (Neil Diamond)
                              wbr


                                All you guys are behaving like women in a tribe whose menstrual cycles get in synch. All at once, everyone around here has left the base phase and has gone anaerobic. Make sure you wear your MAF test anaerobipads.

                                 

                                 

                                --Jimmy