Low HR Training

"Anaerobic" Phase HRT (over MAF) Reports & Discussion (Read 6015 times)

jimmyb


    Hey Jimmy, I noticed in your log that you set your treadmill at 1%, even when MAFfing. This lead me to wonder, wouldn't it be better to set the mill at -1% to promote more rapid turnover. I know Jesse always talks about running hard down hills and to try to keep it close to MAF.
    You have -1%? All I have is 0. I'm never really that concerned with turnover during MAF runs. My paces always get better, and my turnover ends up fine by race season. At first, the legs will feel a bit slow after the base period, but they wake up real fast when there is a solid aerobic system. I set my TM at 1% because I want to mirror running outside as closely as possible. The TM helps you a bit--lessens the stress on the calves and hips. Setting it to 1% and including some hills helps to bring some of that stress back. One thing running on the TM doesn't do is work the downhill muscle movements. Inevitably, when I get back outside, my quads will hurt at first as they are going "what's this downhill crap?" Speaking of TM runs--I gotta go do 2 hours. I'm goofing off here. --Jimmy

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    Master of Inconsistency

      46F and overcast and a bit of wind today Today's run 11 miles AHR=146/154 Nice solid run, to lazy to mark my splits but the AHR was only 3 beats higher from mile 3 to mile 11 with no loss of pace to speak of . I'm retiring my Mizuno Wave Rider 10's , they were causing me some discomfort in the later miles . It's a shame since they only have 300 miles on them but it's not worth the risk. For the data deprived: http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/5148603 Greg

      Ain't  Wastin' Time No More !

        Another Tuesday and another Tempo Run. Again this morning I did a 4 mile Tempo run on the treadmill. (Cincinnati is going to get about 4-5 inches of rain between this morning and Wednesday night, so I'm indoors for now) All four miles were @ my VDOT Threshold pace of 9:22. The last mile was tough, but I made it through. I didn't have my monitor on, but checked my rate every 5 minutes or so. I averaged about 168 and maxed out at 177. I'll attribute the higher rate to the temp (about 70 or so indoors) and the fact that I'm still recovering from my 20 miler on Saturday. Overall, I'm happy with the run.


        Master of Inconsistency

          After my mini taper/St. Patty's day weekend Roll eyes I decided to do my long run today as the next few days are supposed to be a washout . 38F and cloudy 20.01 miles , 2:58:18 AHR=159 Max 174 Pace=8:55 I realized I was a few minutes off the 3 hour mark at 15 and went for it. ( Not very bright ,I know. ) My legs had a hard time with this decision , protesting loudly at about 19 & 1/4 . Nothing like pushing your pace at the end to expose your weaknesses .Mostly hip or groin muscles tightened up big time.Could this have been the start of a BonK ? Glad to report no knee pain at all throughout the run. If I think things are sore now wait till tomorrow! CFkid - I'll be in the same shape as you for the next few days. Tongue Ace : Hope the comeback works out for you. Yours sorely, Greg http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/5191090

          Ain't  Wastin' Time No More !

            After my mini taper/St. Patty's day weekend Roll eyes I decided to do my long run today as the next few days are supposed to be a washout . 38F and cloudy 20.01 miles , 2:58:18 AHR=159 Max 174 Pace=8:55 Ace : Hope the comeback works out for you. Yours sorely, Greg http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/5191090
            Greg- your splits look real good. You'll be ready for the last 6.2 after a taper. I have a new theory on my injury - I think the MD was WAY off on the calf strain diagnosis, actually I am 99% sure. I won't bore you with the details, but I think I am okay running some.
            jimmyb


              After my mini taper/St. Patty's day weekend Roll eyes I decided to do my long run today as the next few days are supposed to be a washout . 38F and cloudy 20.01 miles , 2:58:18 AHR=159 Max 174 Pace=8:55 I realized I was a few minutes off the 3 hour mark at 15 and went for it. ( Not very bright ,I know. ) My legs had a hard time with this decision , protesting loudly at about 19 & 1/4 . Nothing like pushing your pace at the end to expose your weaknesses .Mostly hip or groin muscles tightened up big time.Could this have been the start of a BonK ? Glad to report no knee pain at all throughout the run. If I think things are sore now wait till tomorrow! CFkid - I'll be in the same shape as you for the next few days. Tongue Ace : Hope the comeback works out for you. Yours sorely, Greg http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/5191090
              Wow, nice run. I'm not sure if the Jersey Marathon will be your first or not, but if it is, the way you felt the last five miles will be how it feels in the last 2-4 miles, depending. Your body will protest. And it will take focus to maintain pace. If your fat-burning is good, and you haven't eaten closer than 3 hours before the race, then slowing down will be a choice (even though it's hard, you can maintain pace), and not the wall taking over. Good training run, Greg. The mental training you received will pay dividends in the race. 6 1/2 weeks left to go for you. Your fitness is just about what it's going to be for the race--you might be able to eek a little more out of training, but not much in 3 weeks before the taper. Have you determined a race pace yet? Are you making a pace plan, or are you using a HRM and HR plan to guide your race? Keep going, Greg. Get some rest! --Jimmy Tonight's affirmation: I will not let Greg sucker me into doing my 21 miler on Friday in less than 3 hours, I will remain non-competitive in my training, and save the glory for the marathon. I will not let Greg sucker me into doing my 21 miler on Friday in less than 3 hours, I will remain non-competitive in my training, and save the glory for the marathon. I will not let Greg sucker me into doing my 21 miler on Friday in less than 3 hours, I will remain non-competitive in my training, and save the glory for the marathon......

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              jimmyb


                Speaking of training. Even though I had only one day of rest plannned, I took two days rest after my dead-leggish run on Friday. Worked like a charm. Came back yesterday with a brief 3-mile LT run in the AM. I've brought my LT pace down from 8:03 to 7:19. I'd like to see 7:00-7:10 for 40 minutes by the taper. If so, then matching my PR might be in the cards, if it's a good day. We'll see. There are other indicators I need to match up before creating a pace plan for a 3:22 or better. I did a PM 3-miler under MAF Today, I did a double with 6 in the AM and 4 tonight. All under MAf. --Jimmy

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                Master of Inconsistency

                  Dragged myself outside for a recovery run today. 45F Steady rain 4.55 miles AHR= 132(Maf-5) Max=140 Pace=11:32 Quite uncomfortable,yet somehow satisfying ,as none of the pains I was experiencing were what I would call serious.Knees are achy but not painful .Any slight rise in the road sent the HR up right away.I'm fairly fatigued & sore today and I believe part of my problems were caused by insufficient hydration. I only stopped at water fountains yesterday,I should have stashed water bottles.Live & learn. I think I'll plead guilty to overreaching and take my punishment. Jimmy , My extreme goal is to run a 3:40 which is a 8:23 pace , starting off with a 1:50 at the half and running negative splits.I don't believe I am there yet . This being my first marathon I 'm unsure as to go by HR or not . I plan to do a run next week of 12 miles with 8 at marathon pace .I have to see what the HR does. If it stays under 165 then I'll probably go for it , if not I may have to get more conservative. I 'm fairly sure I can do under 4 hrs but you never know. If I learned anything from yesterday it was to respect that distance ! I think if I had run 21 miles yesterday the 21st would have been at 10:00 pace. Tongue Any ideas would be greatly appreciated , Greg MTA : Ace , You know your body better than anyone else so I hope you are right. Hope to see more of your runs posted !

                  Ain't  Wastin' Time No More !


                  Wasatch Speedgoat

                    Greg, you should not have any problem running a 3.5 hour marathon... Back when I used to run sub 2:50's, I ran my 20 mile training runs in 2.5 hours. (about a 7:30 pace). Last fall I ran a 3:45, equaling my PW and my 20 mile runs were run in 3:15 or so, some in 3.5 hours. (This is all due to the fact that I am now 56...just wait, it's frustrating) Angry Anywho....my marathon last fall was run at what felt like training pace, just to see if i could qualify for Boston. No matter what, it still hurt and yes, I did qualify but am not running Boston because I've been there, done that many times and am now an ultrarunner, so I have a trail 50K that weekend. So take it from one who's run about 30 road marathons that you should be ready for that 3:30 marathon and even faster in time. I would also recommend leaving the monitor at home when you run your marathon unless you absolutely need it to keep from going out too fast. You should feel relaxed and running a training run for the first half at least. This is a cool thread that I'll have to frequent more.... Today I didn't run at all as I've an appointment and need to leave work early, but i did do my 10 hill repeats yesterday. Tongue Steve
                    Life is short, play hard!
                    jimmyb


                      Jimmy , My extreme goal is to run a 3:40 which is a 8:23 pace , starting off with a 1:50 at the half and running negative splits.I don't believe I am there yet . This being my first marathon I 'm unsure as to go by HR or not . I plan to do a run next week of 12 miles with 8 at marathon pace .I have to see what the HR does. If it stays under 165 then I'll probably go for it , if not I may have to get more conservative. I 'm fairly sure I can do under 4 hrs but you never know. If I learned anything from yesterday it was to respect that distance ! I think if I had run 21 miles yesterday the 21st would have been at 10:00 pace. Tongue Any ideas would be greatly appreciated , Greg
                      Do you know your MHR? If so, I suggest you go to Team Oregon Pace Wizard and pop in any race time (race time isn't important, just checking for a marathon HR) and your MaxHR. The wizard will give you an ave. HR for a marathon. Let's say the number is 165. Subtract 5 beats for a 160. When you do your marathon pace run. use a zone of 155-165. The firet mile should average a bit below 155, try to average 155 for the second mile, let the HR drift up to 164-166 by the last mile. Ultimately, you are trying to average 160. This would give you a better indication of what your MRP is going to be. More than if you choose a pace and hope that it averages some number. The number the WIzard gives is for an entire marathon. You are only doing 8 miles, and I find an adjustment down by 5 beats gives me a good idea. Also, to go with that indicator, you can do a 30 minute run between 76-88% HRR. Take the average pace and see what marathon time the pace matches up with. (it should fall between 15k and half-marathon pace). Also, do an MAF test and see what MRP that matches on the magic chart I made up. Last advice: rest or run very, very lightly the day before your MRP run. Keep going, Greg. I agree with Steve, you 'll beat 4 hours, and are capable of a near 3:30. Best to check all the indicators, then create a pace plan that's starts out slower than goal pace as you stated. Keep going!!! --Jimmy

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                      Master of Inconsistency

                        Steve, Thanks for the vote of confidence , though I'm not sure if I deserve it. Jimmy, I plugged what I believe to be my max HR(189) into the wizard and it gave me 162 as my AHR and a 8:02 pace and a 3:30 marathon. I am not positive about the HR max as I never raced while wearing one and only once saw the 189 in training. My guess is that it's really about 194 or so. My present fitness would probably have me at about 167 Avg. to go 8 min. pace . I think I'll try what you said about the MRP run and the HR between 154-164 ( added 2 beats due to the uncertainty of the HRmax) and see what I get. I really don't think I can gauge off the 20 miler as my RHR was around 7 beats higher than usual that morning due to heavy eats and drinks Fri.Sat.& Sun. Monday I rested,but probably not enough. Can't say if that had anything to do with the overall rate but you never know. As always your incite is much needed,and sometimes even heeded ! Wink Greg

                        Ain't  Wastin' Time No More !

                        jimmyb


                          Sounds good, Greg. I'm sure that calculation will give you a good idea for a MRP. TODAY'S RUNS 3/19/08 AM 2 hours 11.25 miles Highest Ave HR per mile 141bpm (MAF) ave pace: 10:33 PM 50 minutes 4.35 miles Highest Ave HR per mile 122bpm (MAF -19) ave pace: 11:31 --Jimmy

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                          Wasatch Speedgoat

                            Steve, Thanks for the vote of confidence , though I'm not sure if I deserve it. Greg
                            Remember that the marathon is 90% mental and only 10% physical. Based on your last statement, you won't run 7 hours....start thinking you "can" do it and you will run that 3:30 Wink The best way to create confidence is to "race' up to the distance. Run a 5K at what McMillan says you should run to run your goal marathon, then a 10K, then a half marathon. I'll bet you've already hit those race times and just need to know you can do it. The only way to find that out is by getting in your long runs....build up to minimum 23 miles. You already ran a fine 20 miler, much faster than I run mine and i know i can run a 3:30 marathon...I've done it many times! Good luck, Steve
                            Life is short, play hard!
                              Hey all Just after some advice. I finish my 12 week base building phase Sunday week with a 14km fun run. My aim is to do 5min kilometres/8:00 miles. In Maffetone training, which has generally been at MAF -5, I have got my times down on average to approx. 5:45p/km (9:16p/mile) with a couple of runs quicker than this. My question is come the race, a) should I just run it as hard as I can or should I not push it to hard considering I have had no speed work in the last 3 months and b) is it realistic to expect I can get down to my goal race pace? Cheers Hank

                              Just running for the fun of it!

                              jimmyb


                                Hey all Just after some advice. I finish my 12 week base building phase Sunday week with a 14km fun run. My aim is to do 5min kilometres/8:00 miles. In Maffetone training, which has generally been at MAF -5, I have got my times down on average to approx. 5:45p/km (9:16p/mile) with a couple of runs quicker than this. My question is come the race, a) should I just run it as hard as I can or should I not push it to hard considering I have had no speed work in the last 3 months and b) is it realistic to expect I can get down to my goal race pace? Cheers Hank
                                Hi Hank, Which race are you talking about? Is it the marathon in July? --Jimmy

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