Marathon Training and Discussions

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Wow (Read 672 times)

    Last post is from June, Willamona begs for some interaction..


    My story...GR Marathon in October, little nervous about mileage, but aim is to finish. Have about 5-6  weeks left, other than a 20 miler what do you think, log is open to the public. Oh, the sarcastic, goood luck doesn't count.. What would you do between know and the faitful date in October?


    John 

    C-R


      John - I'm no marathon expert only having recently reached double digits in completion. One thing I notice is you need more miles on your feet. Lots more than what your log shows. If you are aiming to finish without injury being a likely outcome, you should get to 40 miles per week as a base for about a couple of months prior to the run. This seems unlikely for you. What I would suggest is the Galloway Run/Walk method so you can finish and not hurt yourself. Pick a 4/1 ratio and have at it. Seriously, the marathon is tough and the last 6 miles will kick your butt and this is where injury becomes a real possibility if you are not trained well (personal experience talking)

       

      5 -6 weeks may seem like a long time but it goes fast. However, I would try to put as many easy miles as possible under your belt. Easy means slow without injuring yourself. Walk if you need during these runs. Its time on your feet you need. For you a 20 is certainly needed just to get the experience.

       

      Once you finish this one, you need to consider a program with more miles.


      "He conquers who endures" - Persius
      "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

      http://ncstake.blogspot.com/

        That was my intial thought too. My initial plan was to get to 45-50 miles per week, but life happened in June\July (moved). Started building mileage back up in August with 12 weeks to go, but it doesn't seem or feel like enough time to get in the correct amount of training. Still undecided if I will go thru with it or not.


        Needs more cowbell!

          John, backroadrunner is considering downgrading to the HM, due to PF issues.  Maybe that's an option.  Another thing to consider is deferring.


          Though I will be bummed to not have someone to run with on race day. Sad

          I shoot pretty things! ~

          '14 Goals:

          • 6 duathlons (1 Olympic distance)

          • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

            I did a 3 hour run last week which is about 16 miles for me, took me about (4) days to recover. That is when I really started to rethink 26.2 miles. I felt good at the end of that  run and felt like I could have gone longer, even pick the pace up for the last mile to goal MP. I dunno, maybe I am just freaked by the distance.


            I read a post from last September 2008 where MikeyMike and Nobby both agreed that a 3 hour long run is probably long enough as anything longer would detur training rather than enhance it. I have been targetting 6 plus hours of running a week plus a 1 hour bike ride and trying to increase with every cycle. If I where to average an 8mm that would equate to 45 mpw for an 8 minute average pace runner plus the biking. 


            I did a 13 mile base run, which is my termonology for marathon pace last Sunday with no ill effects and I felt really good at the end. This Sunday I have another 3 hour run schedule, will see how that goes.


            Maybe I am just mental...


            John

            C-R


              It is mental. Seriously do the run/walk thing. You will finish and not hurt yourself. I've done it when my training wasn't up to snuff and managed in just under 4.

               

              Do the full and adjust your strategy.


              "He conquers who endures" - Persius
              "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

              http://ncstake.blogspot.com/


              Hawt and sexy

                Don't give too much credit to the 3 hour long run.  Of the peeps you mentioned, one was an elite womens coach and the other was self coached.  In both cases the runners were sub-3 hour marathoners, so they do not need to run for longer than 3 hours to make their mental game better on race day. I would have to look, but I believe my longest long run before my first marathon was over 5 hours.  That marathon was a 4:48. There is not much Nobby and I disagree on, but this is the one big one.

                 

                What worries me is your recovery.  I have some questions to ask that will help determine why so long.

                 

                What is your post long run ritual?

                What do you eat and drink in that critical first 30 minutes after your long run?

                Do you do ice baths?

                Do you have a healthy diet other wise?

                Do you get at least 8 hours of sleep at night?

                I'm touching your pants.

                  Williamona -

                  What is your post long run ritual?

                  about a 10-15 minute walk to cool down, mix a smoothie, update log, some light stretching, shower.

                  What do you eat and drink in that critical first 30 minutes after your long run?

                  Protein Smoothie - Danon Light and fit yogurt mixed with a scoop of whey protein

                  Do you do ice baths?

                  Nope - Chicken

                  Do you have a healthy diet other wise?

                  Mostly - Beer on weekends would be my downfall

                  Do you get at least 8 hours of sleep at night?

                  About 7 hours, working on getting more.

                  Carmel, I will do this Sundays long run with the Gallo-walking to see how it goes. I think you are correct, it is mental. In August I did a 15 miler in the heat and humidity, went out to fast and hit a wall about mile 12 - this kinda spooked me cause a marthon is a helluva alot longer than 12 miles. 


                  Needs more cowbell!

                    Do the ice baths...really!  They are good!  What I do is sit in the tub and let it fill around me with the coldest setting.  We have a well with really cold water, so I don't actually need ice.  10 minutes in the tub and my legs feel so much looser and less achey.

                    I shoot pretty things! ~

                    '14 Goals:

                    • 6 duathlons (1 Olympic distance)

                    • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)


                    Hawt and sexy

                      Help me out here.  Dannon Light is about 80-100 calories?  A scoop of whey powder is at most another 100 (but probably closer to 40).  Does this mix have a good protien/carb ratio?  There is a list of links around here I would have to dig through, but you want one part protien to four parts of carbs, meaning that if something has 20 mg of carbs, you want it to have 5 mg of protein.  Also you want to replace at least 1/4 of the calories spent on the run within that critical 30 minute window.  For 16 miles, rounding to an average 100 cals per mile, that would mean 400 calories need to be taken in asap to get the body working on recovery.  Yeah, part of the problem here is low mileage, but recovery needs to be tweaked some how also. Your recent PRs compared to your training paces show a difference of only a minute, that could be a huge part of the recovery issue.

                       

                      Try the ice bath.  Using the coldest setting of tap water as zoomy suggested is fine.  I have heard men do get something called turtle when in an ice bath, but I have never heard of any one dying of the affliction.  Nothing to be scared of really.  I know I don't like freezing my girly parts either, but it's ten minutes and it does help me recover more quickly.  If you want, you can try easing into the idea by doing warm/cold water reps on your legs while in the shower. Doing that 3 or 4 times at a minute or two at a time is better than nothing.

                       

                      Oh, and as for the marathon, there are people here that have finished a marathon on less mileage than what you have in the bank.  Your goal is to finish, so you should be ok.  It probably won't feel good, but that's fine, all marathons hurt one way or another.

                      I'm touching your pants.


                      Needs more cowbell!

                        John, if it gives you any reassurance...last Fall backroadrunner and I ran our first marathon together in Milwaukee.  She had logged about half the miles I did in training, was definitely "undertrained" and STILL kicked my ass on race day by a good 20 minutes (friggin' wicked charley horse cramps).  I have no doubt that you will have no problem running with me...and will probably also kick my ass in the last 10 miles. Tongue

                        I shoot pretty things! ~

                        '14 Goals:

                        • 6 duathlons (1 Olympic distance)

                        • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

                          Thanks Willamona for the feedback, I will adjust my post run carb-protien ratio to the magical 4:1. Always thought I was doing ok doing the whey protein after my long runs. Never heard of the 25% caloric intake thing, hmm, wll have to give that a shot also.


                          My running pace - trying to target about 11mm which is about 2 minutes slower than my 5k pace, 1.5 minutes slower than my 10k effort. My recent 10 mile time was somewhat skewed as I help pace a friend through the race - she cut me loose at mile 9 - ran the last mile at 8:50Smile I probably would have ran 9:30's if I ran it at my best effort. What do you think I should be running my long runs at?


                          Winces at my boys being dipped in a bath of cold water, but heh gutting out a little recoil is better than being reminded everyday of what I did to myself on Sunday.Wink


                          Zoom - I am still gonna give it a shot. Gonna go long this weekend, and see what it'll bring. I am just getting a little mental on myself and needed to wine a little.


                          John


                          Queen of 3rd Place

                            I'd seriously consider ditching the bicycling for now and get in another run. Even a short run will make a world of difference. I've noticed I feel better running when I have more runs/week - just adding one or two super-easy 3 - 4 milers in there does a world of good. Counter-intuitive, I know, but it works for me.

                             

                             

                            Arla

                            Ex runner


                            Maniac

                              I don't have anything to add....Just wanted to say good luck....And I don't mean that sarcastically at all.  I hope you get it figured out and have a great race.

                               

                              Just trying to keep the interaction level up for Willamona.

                              Marathon Maniac #6740

                               

                              Goals for 2013:

                               

                              Run 3 Marathons in less than 6 weeks

                              •  PF Chang's Rock N Roll Arizona Marathon (1/20/2013--4:13:19)
                              •  Lost Dutchman Marathon (2/17/2013--4:34:27)
                              •  Phoenix Marathon (03/02/2013--4:17:31)

                               

                              Run 1,500+ miles

                                Thanks Birds I appreciate the encouragement.


                                Arlahile - I ditched the bike tonight and ran 10 instead, Gallowalked 9:1 like Cramel suggested, felt pretty darn good at the end despite the high humidity. Drank 250 calories o fchocholate mile,  like Willamoaa suggsted and now gonna go soak in the tub 


                                Turtling up


                                John 

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