Marathon Training and Discussions

1

Finalizing my marathon training plan. Modified Hanson Plan. (Read 414 times)

    Like the title says, I'm finalizing my marathon training plan.  Right now it is a fairly straightforward Hanson Plan, still not 100% sure if I will stick to it like it is or modified it some more.

     

    My biggest concern is the faster than normal long run that they use in their plan.  I'm okay with the weekly speed/strength workout and I really think the marathon pace tempo type run, and I'm even okay with the long run maxing out at 16 miles (I'm going to cheat and go 18 though), but I would normally expect to run my long run at a very easy pace and they want you to run it as a moderate run.  Oh well, I think I will live with it like that though.

     

    On their pace chart they go based on Marathon Goal time and I would like to somewhat stick to that.  It's easier for me to stick with a pace than try to hold at a specific HR because toward the end of a long run my HR will climb.

     

    Using the running calculators based on my 5k PR it shows a 3:40 marathon (overly optimistic), if I use my recent half marathon time it gives me 4:00 (overly conservative - that half was a tough course and tough weather conditions).

     

    Spliting those down the middle I think I'm going to go with a 3:50 marathon goal time to start my workouts.

     

    That puts me at 11:15 pace for recovery runs, 10:34 pace for "A" easy runs, 9:51 pace for "B" easy runs, 9:29 pace for the moderate aerobic Long run, and 8:46 pace for the Marathon Pace Tempo run.

     

    Now that I have that all typed out I don't think I even have a question, but it helped me to get it all typed out anyway.  Going to start the plan officially the first week in January.

     

    Any comments or suggestions are welcome.

     

    Thanks, Nathan

    Age: 46 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

    Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

    jedigunnie26.2


    BQ in 2013

      What do they consider a moderate paced LR? Very interested in trying this and reading book.

      PR's - 5K - 20:15 (2013) | 10K - 45:14 (2011)  | 13.1 - 1:34:40 (2013)  | 26.2 - 3:47:47 (2012)

       

      2013 Goals - 3000 miles (940m May'13) | sub20 5k | sub 43 10K  | sub1:35 13.1 | sub 3:15 26.2

       

      2013

      Saginaw 5k - 1/19/13 - 20:15 PR

      Chambersburg Half Marathon - 3/9/13 - 1:36:22 PR

      Frederick Half Marathon - 5/5/13 - 1:34:40 PR

       

      Up Next:

      Shippensburg Fair 5k - 7/27/13

      RnR Philadelphia Half Marathon - 9/15/13

      Philadelphia Marathon - 11/17/13

        What do they consider a moderate paced LR? Very interested in trying this and reading book.

         

        For my goal pace the long run is supposed to be 45 seconds per mile slower than marathon goal pace.

         

        My marathon goal pace is 8:45 and I run my tempo runs (up to 10 miles) at that pace and then 3 days later run my long runs (up to 16 miles) at 9:30 pace.

         

        For each goal pace it is slightly different, but you get the general idea.

        Age: 46 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

        Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

        jedigunnie26.2


        BQ in 2013

          Does book go into when you should run your Easy A & B paces?

          PR's - 5K - 20:15 (2013) | 10K - 45:14 (2011)  | 13.1 - 1:34:40 (2013)  | 26.2 - 3:47:47 (2012)

           

          2013 Goals - 3000 miles (940m May'13) | sub20 5k | sub 43 10K  | sub1:35 13.1 | sub 3:15 26.2

           

          2013

          Saginaw 5k - 1/19/13 - 20:15 PR

          Chambersburg Half Marathon - 3/9/13 - 1:36:22 PR

          Frederick Half Marathon - 5/5/13 - 1:34:40 PR

           

          Up Next:

          Shippensburg Fair 5k - 7/27/13

          RnR Philadelphia Half Marathon - 9/15/13

          Philadelphia Marathon - 11/17/13

            I don't have the book, but someone that has it told me that it doesn't break down in the book what the recovery or "A" and "B" easy pace runs are for.

             

            The plan just says easy run.  I guess you can pick what one you want to run that day. 

            Age: 46 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

            Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27


            Bad Ass

              I don't have the book, but someone that has it told me that it doesn't break down in the book what the recovery or "A" and "B" easy pace runs are for.

               

              The plan just says easy run.  I guess you can pick what one you want to run that day. 

               

              I have not read the book yet, but I wonder if the A and B are depending the day, weather, how you feel, etc., rather than for you to pick which one you'll do for the whole training.

              Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

              Blog

              "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."


              RunsWithDog

                I have not read the book yet, but I wonder if the A and B are depending the day, weather, how you feel, etc., rather than for you to pick which one you'll do for the whole training.

                 

                Yes, the book specifically says that they do not tell you which days to use the A or B ends of the range so that you can decide based on how you feel, etc. It mentions that new marathoners should tend towards the slower end of the range for starters to make sure they can handle to SoS workouts w/o being compromised by too-fast easy runs. It also mentions that you might choose the slower end of the range for the days between two tough workouts. I think the idea is to give you just a bit of flexibility to adapt to conditions, your mood, etc.

                 

                I like having a range. It also allows me to adapt for hills/etc. However, I doubt I'll run many miles at my slow end of easy pace because 13 mm just feels too damn slow to me. 12 mm feels really slow, but 13 feels ridiculous. Especially for short runs. So, I am glad to have the range allowed, so I don't have to feel I am cheating too much to stay at my faster easy pace most/all the time.

                PRs: 10k 57:30, HM 2:11:12, Full 5:02:57

                Next Up: HM 1/6/13 & Marathon #3 3/24/13

                Training Plan Right Now: Hansons Brothers Beginner Marathon Plan

                  Thanks for the input.

                   

                  Since I'm having a little trouble figuring out what my goal pace should be 4 1/2 months from now when I will be approaching the first 18 months of "real" training in my life, I think I've about decided to stick with HR guidelines for my run paces.

                   

                  For sure I think I can just stick to my MAF HR runs for my easy runs.  That typically ends up right around 10:00 - 10:15 per mile for me and that falls easily between the 9:51 - 10:34 range that they give for their easy runs based on my current goal time of 3:50.

                   

                  They give a goal pace of 9:29 for the moderate aerobic long run which seems to line up well right now for me.  My Daniels spreadsheet shows a HR of 78% of Max for "Moderate aerobic" which comes out to 151 for me.  I ran 12 miles last night at a 9:32 avg pace and a 150 avg HR (with some decent hills mixed in) so that lines up perfect now, but if I improve I will stick to the 150 HR target and let the pace land wherever that gets it.

                   

                  The tricky one is going to be the actual Marathon Pace Tempo run.  For my current goal race time, that's a 8:45 pace for me.  Looking at Daniels tables they show 84% as the avg HR for a marathon race which would be 163 for me.  What I'm thinking is that I will set that as my max HR target on those Tempo runs.  I'll let it bump up a little for hills or wind and things like that, but I will hopefully keep it where at the end of a 10 mile Tempo run, that last mile will be at an avg HR of 163 tops.

                   

                  It is kind of scary how my HR numbers line up with the tables for previous races, The tables show a 87% of max avg HR for a half marathon which is 169 for me, and on my 2 half marathons my avg HR was 168 and 169.  The only race that is off kilter is my PR 5K and Daniels tables so that your avg HR for a 5K should be at 95% of max and mine was only 90% of max.  It's crazy because that race just felt great and was a PR by almost 1:30 over a 5K that I ran just a few weeks earlier and on the earlier race my HRM wasn't working, but I have no doubt that my avg HR was much higher on the slower 5K than on the PR 5K.

                   

                  Anyway, the idea here is that if I continue to improve on my running over the next few months, and it gets to where I can run a 9:15 pace at a 150 avg HR on my long runs, then I will probably move my goal race time down to 3:45 instead of 3:50.  Then I will move my MP Tempo run down to a 8:35 as long as it still lines up to staying under 163 avg HR on those last few miles.

                   

                  My other race goal in 2013 is to go sub 45 on a 10K and looking at the charts that would be an equivalent performance to a 3:25 marathon.  I don't think there is anyway I could get there by May, but I do hope that I can improve some during this process so I have a decent chance of getting to the sub 45 10K by the end of 2013.

                   

                  Clear as mud?  Any thoughts on setting 84% as my target HR on the marathon pace Tempo runs?

                   

                  Thanks, Nathan

                  Age: 46 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                  Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

                  vegefrog


                    I just got the book in the mail today! I'm gonna use an abbreviated version ( I only have 10 weeks until marathon)...and see what happens.

                     

                    I'm interested to know how it goes for you using the whole plan npaden!! I've been following along your forum threads soaking up the info you get Smile

                     

                    BTW: Your race times are very similar to mine. I think you can do a 3:50 easy, faster if you are willing to make it hurt Smile

                      Thanks, good luck to you, hope you get your BQ on this one but for sure in the fall if you miss it on this one.

                       

                      I guess I bring it on myself asking for a critique on my workout.  They sure can critique!

                       

                      I think I end up getting good information out of it, I think I just don't communicate what I'm thinking very well.  I think more like an accountant and want to stick to objective measurements.  They give me all this subjective input that I really have a hard time wrapping my head around.

                       

                      Another part of the problem is that most of my questions are way in advance what if type things that will more than likely never even occur.  I just tend to want to plan ahead and right now my fitness level is still a moving target although my progression has slowed down quite a bit over the last few months.

                      Age: 46 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                      Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

                      vegefrog


                        I hear ya! Sometimes you get more then you asked for Wink There is so much knowledge on this site, it's really amazing. I feel lucky that the more experienced runners take the time to answer all of our questions!