Mornin' everyone.
Hey Mike; How far did you run after your chiro. appointment?
"Speaking of interesting. Not sure what I think of this: a site devoted to uncovering marathon cheaters. Thoughts?" Tramps, I think this site is dangerous and useless. One doesn't how to what extent what is posted has been vetted, so it may be misinformation that could be hurtful to someone. As an RD, I will only consider info from people I know and trust if I am considering DQing a racer based on other performances. I don't really see an upside to having this site.
Last night's meeting ran for 4 hours (we knew it was going to be a slog), so I didn't get to bed till after 11:30. I wisely (for a change) chose to sleep in this morning instead of getting a 4am workout. I'll be challenged to get my list checked off today, and I have another meeting this evening. Sure is nice to be back to 'normal.'
I came back to ask a question: There is a local racer who has had seizures in several races. He had seizure in one race two years in a row. He often bounces back quickly, and often goes on to finish the race. But meanwhile, it is very scary for all the racers around him, as well as for the EMTs and RD. We don't know that a doctor has ever cleared him to race, but his family is OK with it. But we don't know if he is always going to bounce back so quickly, if at all. If you were an RD, and were aware of his history, would you accept the risk and let him run your race?
Keep smiling and have a greta Wednesday.
Jay
Without ice cream there would be darkness and chaos.
Trails are hard!
That would seem to be a test of the waiver that we all sign that I'm not sure I would want to make. But if you refuse to let him enter are you discriminating against someone with a disability? Yet another reason not to be a RD
Just the fact that it seems necessary to have a site like that is a little discouraging. Like Holly said, I'm not sure what the people that cheat are getting out of it. I guess a few have gotten BQs. But the fact that at least a couple of the more highly publicized ones didn't get caught until they screwed up and placed makes it that much more of a head scratcher. Put the effort into training rather than figuring out where to cut the corners. Or use artistic license when stating your time. i.e. a 4:59 becomes "Oh yeah, I ran a 4 hour marathon"
On the running front, I made it out for my 3.1 lake loop this morning while Jay was slacking in bed. (no cutting corners here without getting wet) Already almost 70°f and the DPW STILL hasn't turned on the water fountains I think I need to call and find out why.
Need a fast half for late fall. Then I need to actually train for it.
Sayhey! MM#130
Mornin'
Jay, I would use situational ethics in terms of answering your question. That is, since he is local and known to the community, and that includes the rather public event of having seizures in races, I would invite him out for coffee (or ice cream) and put it on the table. You are kind and caring, and that will come across. I'd put the question in the context of; "given that you've had seizures in some recent races, I wanted to get directions from you on the very best way to handle it if you experience another one at my race. Is there a medication or procedure the EMTs should know about, do smelling salts help at all, anything we should know about your particular condition to best treat you? Would you want us to call your doctor?" Seizures can be caused by various factors, so getting his input would be most valuable.
If the conversation goes well, I think I'd ask, given the fact that he's had more than one seizure during a race (thereby taking his condition out of being totally confidential), if would it be all right to give race volunteers a quick heads up on what to do if another seizure happens during the race.
And he's signing the waiver, so he is accepting the risk, not you. Having the meeting with him should cover you; take notes, write it up, and keep it in your race folder, of course.
So Stumps, I notice you achieved the goals there on your post--the Somerville and the 25K......unless of course we're on for next year in Somerville and you're leaving it up for that. Bring. it. How 'bout coming to Charlevoix?? There's a half.....and there's RAers and Tag! And Vernor's.
Love Leslie's comment yesterday: "Speaking of core/ST, per an article in Trailrunner Magazine, I'm going to be tacking on forward and backward walking lunges and side lunges after my runs. I do lunges during my 2x/week C/ST, but it sheds a whole new light on things when your legs are tired. I look goofy lunging down the road, especially backwards, but at 5:30 a.m., and considering how goofy I look in my running attire, who cares?? (And I thought of yo this morning, Ribs, when I put on my bright orange shirt, electric blue removable sleeves, and purple gloves - a combination that I know just makes you swoon . . . . or maybe not . . .)"
Yeah, you really know how to get him where he lives, heh heh.....now if you'd only post a photo....
Anyone else enjoying running to Shut and Dance with Me?
["Oh, don't you dare look back. Just keep your eyes on me." I said, "You're holding back, " She said, "Shut up and dance with me!"] ....I'm going to use this next time I pace someone in a race. They always complain we go too slow at the start (holding back)....yeah, I get to do the "shut up and run with me" part.
Oh, and twocat, I agree with Carolyn, about the running part. I learned the truth of that when I ran 18 miles the first time in the Bighorns with my Rapid City chums and was hobbling up and down curbs days later--they assured me just going out and running was the thing to do, and they were right.
So 8+ for me this am and under 9 minute pace, just sayin' I take my own advice.
grins,
A
https://agratefullifedotnet.wordpress.com/ (for a piece or two of my mind)
On the marathon cheating blog--it seems overkill and possibly dangerous to me. I've also seen examples where chips malfunctioned. I ran a marathon and was just behind another woman for most of the race. I know she ran the entire thing; I saw her, or if I lost sight, it was due to a stop by me or a road curve and she was where she should have been when the road straightened or I got back to speed. Anyway, her results didn't register fully and she asked me to go with her to the RD, which I did, gladly. She surely doesn't deserve to be on someone's blog as a cheater.
Another time I crossed a finish along with another person and the results didn't show me, but the second mat did. (And there were many witnesses.) The RD said that's why she has two mats at the finish. I've also run a few races where splits were recorded, and I've looked up mine only to find one or more missing. And I don't cheat at races; if anything, I've run some 27 mile+ marathons as I have no sense of direction (and my PB is a 15+ mile half ....yes, it was a Trail Half, how'd you know?)
So I don't know about the science and technology of timing devices, but there are glitches. One shouldn't be smeared because of that.
I could go on, but point is, the chips are not infallible.
I do think people who cheat are sad. IF they're doing it to BQ, it's SO Wrong, and it keeps someone who really wants to be there and earned it out, so that brand of cheater deserves heightened scrutiny. The rest of 'em, I don't know, I just find them pathetic.
I'm for letting RDs deal with the situations as they occur.
King of PhotoShop
Lots to say here today but let me start out with running, which is presumably why we are here. Bright, sunny, cool morning, high 60's, no wind and low dew point. We haven't seen the sun in ages here. Set out to run 3 after yesterday's muggy 10, but felt good enough to get 5 in at an easy pace. Storms coming back tonight.
Fatozig, orange and blue are a lovely combination and I have lots of combinations of the two. Good for you. But that purple? Please!
Aamos is right on the money in both her posts today. I was at the Y the other day stretching and a buddy of mine came in and told me about a woman in the 60-65 AG who had won her division in a 5K with a 25 minute time. This is not unusual, but he pointed out that on Athlinks her other races were nowhere close to the time and she probably cheated. I had to give him a tutorial on malfunctioning chips, short courses and misdirected runners and so on. She is a fine runner and would never cheat, but comments like that are dangerous for all concerned. And I also agree with Aamos' advice to Jay on the guy with the seizures, a very professional and kind way to handle it.
There was a big flap over that guy who likely cheated on his BQ because he made a fuss about taking his kids out of school. You all must remember it. The people who are alleging he cheated are the kind who always want to get even, or punish wrongdoers. I can never figure that out. Waste of time to me.
Twocat, your reasoning is the very best kind. I too did the same thing when the BAA asked me to come back in 2014 without even having to qualify, because I was stopped from finishing due to the bombings. My position was that if I took that slot, a qualifier would perhaps lose his or hers and I declined. Good for you.
Spareribs
MM#209 / JapanJoyful#803
Or use artistic license when stating your time. i.e. a 4:59 becomes "Oh yeah, I ran a 4 hour marathon"
Except for minutes for Boston BQ’s, I’d never heard of it before but I didn’t mind a bit when my aging father use to round down to three hours what-turned-out-to-be my last sub-four marathon (3:59:13) to his San Diego retirement friends. Unfortunately, they couldn’t have cared less one-way-or-the-other if he’d’ve said 2-hours or one hour..Jay - no matter what he says, if something happens, you can be sure you’re gunna be held responsible by someone. In fact, I wonder if his family's been telling him not to run for a long time. .Maybe draw up a super-waiver with provisions for runners with known conditions to have their physician’s co-sign too and maybe even family members. Parent and physician signatures use to be required for all our school sports in those days. Maybe marathons such as the Medtronic Twin Cities Marathon require them but I doubt it. Could you could condition participation on having his own doctor or medic run with him not only for him but also to alleviate frightening other runners who don't know how to help?
"Enjoy yourself. Your younger days never come again." 100yo T. Igarashi to me in geta at top of Mt. Fuji (8/2/87)
Marathon Maniac #957
Lots to comment on today, but alas, not enough time.
Amy - well said, both posts.
A series of storms came in yesterday evening, the sort of sudden cloudbursts that happen on humid afternoons, where the sky opens up for about 10 minutes in a drenching downpour and then moves on. However there was a small tornado that touched down at a local shopping center and tore up about a block of stores. I was working on the computer with the news turned on when it happened, and the weather people practically had a weathergasm. They continued to cover the tiny twister from all possible angles for the next 90 minutes, preempting the other scheduled events. I guess weather has been a little dull lately.
7 miles for me today in 67 degrees.
Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, "Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapenos."
Too much here to hope to catch up on!
Anyone else live in an area with lots of maple trees? We have two in our back yard that we planted over 30 years ago and are now quite large. I had noticed recently that they seemed to be having the largest crop of seeds that I've ever seen, and indeed when these windy storms have come over the last couple weeks our backyard looks like a spinner explosion! But it seems to be a widespread phenomenon, as everywhere we walk or run around here, the paths, sidewalks, street gutters, etc. are strewn with them almost like autumn leaves. I even had to clear a logjam of them in the gutter on the front of the house today after it overflowed in yesterday's cloudburst. Anyway, is anyone else seeing this? I assume it's due to some combination of weather conditions in the last year or so.
Ran 6 miles more or less around the lake at the park this morning. The "more or less" refers to my running performance, not to the distance. I'm still struggling much of the time and am not sure of the cause or combination of causes, but I suppose it could be one of these:
a) Lack of conditioning to the H&H.
b) Falloff due to aging.
c) Recent changes in medications.
I'm not sure what to do about it. The medication change is a likely culprit since it's been a number of years since any changes have been made, but my recent tests showing that my cardio-vascular health is not where I thought it was (or would like it to be!) required some changes, such as going from a 10mg to an 80mg statin dosage. Can't do things like that without side effects!
Carry on everyone. By the way, did you see the viral video from one of our local newscasters where they were talking about Wednesday being "hump day", and while talking with the weathercaster the anchor said -- obviously without thinking -- "looks like we're going to have a dry hump day."
Doug, runnin' cycling in Rochester, MI
"Think blue, count two, and look for a red shoe"
. . . . and the weather people practically had a weathergasm.
Hahahaaaa! I gotta remember that one!
Ribs and Amy - If I had a fancy dancy phone to take and post picture with, I would've treated you all to the sight, 'cause I shoud've added that the attire also included a white hat with a headlamp strapped to my head, my little vest I wear to carry my phone and inhaler, and my reflector vest (white with yellow reflector strips). I consider myself THE fashion statement for predawn runners.
Tracking people who are cheaters? Someone has too much time on their hands.
The seizure guy? I like Amy's idea. My concern would be if he fell and cracked his head open during a seizure.
1 hr stat bike this a.m. - 5 x 1 min hard with a final 1 x 5 min progressively harder, then planks. I was sufficiently soaked at the end.
Leslie Living and Running Behind the Redwood Curtain -------------
Trail Runner Nation
Sally McCrae-Choose Strong
Bare Performance
Interesting topics of conversation today and I have nothing to add, just enjoying reading your comments.
4.4 miles - usual route. Knee has improved greatly from cross-training by hiking. Felt like I weighed 1,000 pounds though. Hope to get another run or two in this week.
"During a marathon, I run about two-thirds of the time. That's plenty." - Margaret Davis, 85 Ed Whitlock regarding his 2:54:48 marathon at age 73, "That was a good day. It was never a struggle."
coastwalker that is a tough legal problem you have. At least AamosY knows what she is talking about here so personally, I would go with her advice.
That marathon cheater page could be dangerous. Innocent until proven guilty is a very important concept. My mother was blacklisted during the McCarthy era, with grave consequences to her career. (No, she never was actually a communist. Not that it mattered once the finger was pointed.) I am actually quite opposed to all of these on line mobs that have formed for the purpose of meting out some type of mob justice. If it were in my power there would exist a counter mob. Its one and only purpose would be to do unto others as they have suggested the mobs they lead do unto others. Ideally, shut the whole boycott, fire, whatever to whoever you disagree with thing down.
I got myself into the gym for a bit of upper body work this morning. That was it. Tomorrow? We will see. Thank you all for the suggestion I at least walk a bit. I know part of me wants to take that advice! Another part, however, remembers being sidelined from running for over 2 years and is scared to go out even for a walk in any kind of pain. I wonder if there is a little workout devil and angle sitting on each shoulder now?
Live like you are dying not like you are afraid to die.
Drunken Irish Soda Bread and Irish Brown Bread this way --> http://allrecipes.com/cook/4379041/
Thanks for your thoughtful responses to that site. I was puzzled by why someone would expend all that time and energy to do this. Is this really that important? On the other hand, yeah, it's pretty sleazy to cheat at something like this but those folks have to look themselves in the mirror. I have no interest in vigilante justice. Whoever is doing this has certainly taken on a serious responsibility to do this fairly. I hope they've thought this through.
One weird thing is that I learned about this because they followed my Twitter account, which I use for work. I don't think I've ever tweeted about running, so I'm not sure how they identified me. Maybe they're scrutinizing my blazing fast marathon times. ;o)
Erica--yeah, I'm spending lots more time working at school instead of at home so with commute and more F2F meetings I just can't seem to find time to hang out here much. I'm loving the work but there are only so many hours in the day and I'm trying hard to keep the running going. Seriously, though, I do lurk--at least briefly--often. And Holly's 40/40 threads keep me coming back regularly!
Be safe. Be kind.
MM #5615
Hello everybody!
It was a tough day at the middle school track. Goal: 3200 in 12:00 -- 400 in 1:12 -- 400 in 1:12. Actual: 3200 in 12:04.33 -- 400 in 1:16.44 -- 400 in 1:19.80. With the 3 mile warmup, 3 mile cool down, and all the other stuff in between, I had a total of 9 miles in 1:07:10. I think training for a marathon is easier than training for a 1500.
As far as the cheating thing...well...I was going to say, "who cares...don't your waste your time on them"...but, I know how I felt when I saw somebody "cheating" in front of me with the bike pacer...so I guess I do care. But, obviously, I wouldn't do anything about it...unless it affected me. See? It's all about me.
Okay--that's it--gotta go. See ya!
I like how Tramps summed up the marathon cheater issue. But I also agree that if they cheat to get into Boston, and displace a legitimate qualifier then that's a problem.
Hope Texas is ready to dry out soon. Not only is DH heading there later this week (see? It's all about us, too!), but it's just a scary situation for all involved. I saw something on the news this morning that said the drought was all over because of this. I'd think they'd need regular steady rains, not a series of violent downpours... but maybe it helped?
We're having cloudy/sunny days here with highs in the low 70's and so far not much for wind (although I hear that might change tomorrow). I'd wanted to get home earlier today so wasn't planning on running home from work, but it all worked out and that's what I did. Took water with me and found that slowed me down because I stop to drink, then it bothers me with the sloshing, then I need to find a trash to throw it out. Geez, first world problems, right? Anyway, after I threw it out I felt better and headed home. 10.1 hilly miles in 1:23 but I did stop a few times for traffic and aforementioned water stops. Does anyone else get a bit queasy after drinking water while running? Hmmm, had that hit me a couple times mid-run.
Got the lettuce (both from seeds--2 kinds-- and romaine seedlings), squash (2 varieties) and beets (2 varieties) planted tonight. Need to get the rest of it in asap since the weather is so warm and the seedlings are outgrowing their six-packs quickly!
If the conversation goes well, I think I'd ask, given the fact that he's had more than one seizure during a race (thereby taking his condition out of being totally confidential), if would it be all right to give race volunteers a quick heads up on what to do if another seizure happens during the race. And he's signing the waiver, so he is accepting the risk, not you. Having the meeting with him should cover you; take notes, write it up, and keep it in your race folder, of course.
If insurance companies are involved in your event, ask their opinion before any meetup with the runner. If my grandson and I saw that during an event, little Noah would be traumatised.
SteveP