Joey, listen to Tall, Perch and CNY re hills, great points in all of them, and you can do them at any point in your training (except for the fast downhill running, a somewhat different topic). I wish that someone would help out dickyg. An open note to you dicky: stop being stubborn about this. You are injured. Get help from a professional and don't make it worse. Everyone here has been where you are now and I know it is frustrating but you must use good judgment now. This injury is going to take time to heal. Craneium, I have a story for you that I hope you will save: In Robert Bolt's play, "A Man for All Seasons", Thomas More has as a protege a young man named Richard, who is ambitious and selfish. He asks Thomas, "If I am to achieve greatness, what will I do?" More says, "Why not teach?" Richard doesn't like this mundane idea and asks, "But if I teach, who will know of my greatness?" And More responds, "You, your students, God. Not a bad audience, that." I may have missed a word or two, but when I first read it I loved it, as I teach adult learners. But the more important message here, is that great teachers give something back and it's their gift that makes them wonderful beings. Just read any post by tselbs and you can see that kindness only the teacher has. We have a number of teachers here and on Kick. Hats off to them. They have a great audience. Spareribs