Spareribs, you can hijack my thread anytime, it's ok with me. Rochrunner, I didn't know what got said in the old CR threads 'cause I wasn't there too often or very long. Thanks everyone for your wisdom. I'm definitely avoiding the concrete! I was curious what everyone thought about dirt training versus all hardstuff training. For me, training for a full marathon seems very different to me than training for a half marathon. I'm also uncertain about many things due to the injuries and health concerns I had in 2007, so I want to get it right this year. I promised Tetsujin I would be careful this time with my training. Ilene you bring up a good point about marathon pace. I noticed on the dirt I was slower and got pretty tired, and getting up to the marathon pace speed was not possible. I liked the dirt path in PV because it has some nice long hills plus I could add on some asphalt too (mostly nasty straight up hills) but like you said I wasn't able to get to a marathon pace.

Hi Dromedary. Good thoughts already. Just adding that I think it's a good idea to mix up surfaces. I try to mix it up as much as I can on each and every run I do, including long runs. Even if it's just a few miles of my runs on dirt/trail through or around Seattle urban parks, which is often, I think it can really help to prevent injury. I will say this, too. Once in a while I do a long training run exclusively on trail -- not a mountain trail, but a trail loop with good footing (aside from some mud and lots of hills) around a reservoir in my area. (I did it just last week). I finish that 19+ mile long run tired, but that afternoon I am not nearly as tired as I would feel on a 19 mile run on asphalt. And the next day, I feel like I could easily get out there and run another 19. I feel GREAT. That says something about how much easier trail running is on the body.

I was once told by an experienced running coach that concrete is about 20% harder than asphalt, as far as impact on joints, shoulder of the road, packed dirt is about 20% of asphalt, and grass is about 20% of dirt. I recently ran a race in Scotland where we ran the last 1/2 mile was on grass because of the steep decline. They said that they were afraid of injuries running down the hill on the asphalt. Run long run well Marathon Derrick

Soundrunner, charleygross, jules2, and marathon derrick thanks for the insights. No charleygross you didn't confuse me! And you're not old . I think we're all old in this forum by some standards (remembe,r people used to say "don't trust anyone over 30" ). I've run on sand but it wasn't for very long distances. I like charging up this steep sand hill in Manhattan Beach (it is used by National Guardsmen for training). I do it barefoot and it's like having a good pedicure. Running on grass is a scary thing around my area. Usually the only grass around here is a golf course and I don't want to get beaned. Or there might be an older high school with grass, but usually these gangbanger kids are lurking nearby. My husband doesn't think it's a good idea for me to go there at all. Tetsujin, thanks for the info about trail shoes and heel striking. The dirt path I run on is not a technical trail so I just use regular running shoes. I also have to cross streets or run on asphalt for up to 2 miles at a time until I get back on the dirt, so that's another reason to use regular shoes. Thanks for all those links too (I would like to get instruction on Pose) but I am a bit wary of Chi Runners. I'll have to tell you about that offline. I am running with Ileneforward this weekend on the bike path until she gets too fast and I see her butt disappear in the distance. I am definitely still running on the dirt for the shorter recovery runs.