RunningAHEAD - Topic: Interval Question

Dark Horse

posted: 10/15/2008 at 1:22 PM

I just glanced at this thread. Lot of information here, including a lengthy detailed treatment by Dale. In my opinion very few people here, including me, need to know much about intervals. If you go to the Macmillan page, provided by maine, you can get your recommended paces should you wish to do intervals. Armed with the Macmillan paces, you can go to your local track any time, and run several repetitions of any length you choose, and walk or jog a lap in between. The details are not very important for most of us. If you don't hurt yourself--and remember, speed kills--you will probably get a little faster, and you may have some fun, especially if you are running with other people. Personally I think most of you will get better bang for your buck by upping your mileage, or doing harder or more frequent tempo runs. Or by losing weight (2 seconds per mile per pound is one rule of thumb), which is probably the first and most important thing you should do if you want to get faster. When we become elite runners--and most of us better not hold our breath till this happens--we can worry about the fine points of intervals training. Until then, I think it's a distraction from other things you should be doing first. Dark Horse

I'm a dark horse, running on a dark race course.

Ileneforward

#artbydmcbride

posted: 10/15/2008 at 3:16 PM

Quote from Dark Horse on 10/15/2008 at 1:22 PM:

I just glanced at this thread. Lot of information here, including a lengthy detailed treatment by Dale. In my opinion very few people here, including me, need to know much about intervals. If you go to the Macmillan page, provided by maine, you can get your recommended paces should you wish to do intervals. Armed with the Macmillan paces, you can go to your local track any time, and run several repetitions of any length you choose, and walk or jog a lap in between. The details are not very important for most of us. If you don't hurt yourself--and remember, speed kills--you will probably get a little faster, and you may have some fun, especially if you are running with other people. Personally I think most of you will get better bang for your buck by upping your mileage, or doing harder or more frequent tempo runs. Or by losing weight (2 seconds per mile per pound is one rule of thumb), which is probably the first and most important thing you should do if you want to get faster. When we become elite runners--and most of us better not hold our breath till this happens--we can worry about the fine points of intervals training. Until then, I think it's a distraction from other things you should be doing first. Dark Horse

Oh no you di'in't just call us fat! Surprised

Runners run

Aamos

posted: 10/15/2008 at 4:26 PM

People callin' each other fat over in the daily, too Evil grin

Masters 2000 miles

wildchild

Carolyn

posted: 10/15/2008 at 5:10 PM

You know, you couldn't joke about calling people fat in most on-line forums without the risk of offending someone, given the percentage of the population that's overweight. Somehow, I don't think that's an issue on a running forum. Kind of nice.

_{I hammered down the trail, passing rocks and trees like they were standing still.}

DoppleBock

posted: 10/15/2008 at 5:45 PM

Quote from Holly S. on 10/13/2008 at 9:24 AM:

Interval questions: 1. I’ve been recently doing ½ mile intervals with a 2-minute recovery. If I want to change to 400’s (or quarter-mile) intervals, how much recovery should I have between them? Keep in mind I am programming them on my Garmin and running on the streets, not on a track. 2. Also, what pace would be appropriate to shoot for under normal conditions (5K RP?), (although, given that I am being somewhat conservative about speed at the moment, I would slow that down somewhat until I am sure I'm fully healed). 3. And how many 400s would I do? Is aiming for about 3 miles at the fast pace when I do intervals a good rule of thumb? 4. Also, which is best suited to my only upcoming race - a 5-miler on Thanksgiving? Does it matter?

Can I ask what purpose you are running 400s? The only reason I run 400s is for footspeed and running form. They are too short to get a lot of Vo2 max benefit unless you are taking really short breaks. I do not have one of those garmin contraptions, but I always like 5x5 minutes of running at 5k pace with 4-5 minute rest periods for 5 miler - 10k distance. Fast enough to get some vo2 max benefit, slow enough to get some LAT benefit and if done right they do not leave you spent for days. Just my 2 cents

Long dead ... But my stench lingers !

DoppleBock

posted: 10/15/2008 at 5:50 PM

Quote from wildchild on 10/15/2008 at 5:10 PM:

You know, you couldn't joke about calling people fat in most on-line forums without the risk of offending someone, given the percentage of the population that's overweight. Somehow, I don't think that's an issue on a running forum. Kind of nice.

I am ok with it - I love it when most the skinny people see my fat ass pass them - I hope it motivates them to work a little harder. Many people look at me toward the front of the coral and think what's that fat ass doing way up here Big grin

Just rememeber its just like car racing - Its weight vs horepower

Long dead ... But my stench lingers !

DoppleBock

posted: 10/15/2008 at 6:01 PM
modified: 10/15/2008 at 6:02 PM

Dark Horse- Many ways and reasons to do intervals - I think there is a place for them in many peoples' workouts I like: 6x1 mile @ LAT 5x2 mile @ LAT 2x5 mile @ LAT 25-20-15-10-5 minutes @ LAT 5x5 minutes at Vo2 Max or CV (Critical Velocity) Less often - but still good 10x400 hill intervals 16x400 fast intervals (1 mile race pace) I would think 80 / 20 rule that 80% of the people on this board will get a benefit from interval work. Although there is nothing wrong with just running 20-25 minutes @ T or longer tempo runs or progressive runs. And ... yes, those of us with excess weight will get faster by losing weight. But we all have our strengths and weaknesses and where it may be easy for me to un 100 mile weeks - its damn hard to lose the weight I need to.

Long dead ... But my stench lingers !

Mtnchk1

Top 'O the World!

posted: 10/15/2008 at 6:03 PM

well, there's fat...and then there's phat! Big grin

Dictionary: phat (făt) adj. Slang., -ter, -test. Excellent; first-rate: phat fashion; a phat rapper. [Earlier, sexy (said of a woman), of unknown origin.]

Remember that doing anything well is going to take longer than you think!! ~ Masters Group

Dark Horse

posted: 10/15/2008 at 6:33 PM

If I have learned anything around here, it is not to get drawn into debates, but just say what I have to say and move on. Dark Horse

I'm a dark horse, running on a dark race course.

slowgino

posted: 10/15/2008 at 7:54 PM

Quote from Dark Horse on 10/15/2008 at 1:22 PM:

... by losing weight (2 seconds per mile per pound is one rule of thumb), which is probably the first and most important thing you should do if you want to get faster...

I can almost hear Harald Norpoth's Groucho doppelganger (sp?) now - "I resemble that remark"... As Nobby described him in another thread re LHR training: "running skeleton" ...

MrFinn

Prince of Fatness

posted: 10/15/2008 at 8:45 PM
modified: 10/15/2008 at 8:59 PM

Quote from Dark Horse on 10/15/2008 at 1:22 PM:

Personally I think most of you will get better bang for your buck by upping your mileage, or doing harder or more frequent tempo runs. Or by losing weight (2 seconds per mile per pound is one rule of thumb), which is probably the first and most important thing you should do if you want to get faster.

Good points, with the weight comment included. I've dropped about 20 pounds in the last year and a half and I certainly think it's helped bring my times down. I'm looking to lose a few more ... we'll see. I have decided to start doing intervals to help bring my times down. I think now is a good time because I worked up to a good base (~40 mpw) to support the work. I chose the 1K intervals with short recovery (90 seconds), and am running them at about 10K pace. So these are more intense than a tempo run, but are not too bad. I don't feel wiped after doing them. Regarding the tempos, I really think that I was running them too fast. I was running them somewhere between 10K and HM pace, and I now I think I should be running them between HM and marathon pace. I'm talking about 45+ minute tempos, here. Whereas before I asked why do intervals because the tempos serve the purpose, I now see the difference between the two workouts. I prefer not to think of it as getting faster. I've run a few PRs this year, and I'm not any faster than I used to be. What I can do is hold my faster pace longer. Mileage is the number one reason. The reason I am running the intervals I described above is to train my body to maintain a faster pace for a longer period of time, not necessarily to increase my raw speed. MTA: Here is the comment from Jim from that thread I referred to. This pointed me in the direction of longer intervals with shorter recoveries.

This is a great thread--if I could add one thing it would about training differenes for older runners. Not that you are old (like me ), but at 45 you are older than most of these guys. The older you get the less bang for the buck there is in doing a lot of v02 max, but we can keep improving lactic threshold indefinitely. This is not to say that we should never do any hard intervals, it's just that it is probably not the best place to put most of our energy.

Not at it at all.

MrFinn

Prince of Fatness

posted: 10/15/2008 at 8:52 PM

Quote from Ileneforward on 10/15/2008 at 3:16 PM:

Oh no you di'in't just call us fat!

See what you started?

Not at it at all.

Ileneforward

#artbydmcbride

posted: 10/15/2008 at 11:16 PM

Me? Holly started this great stuff.

Runners run

Holly S.

Marathon Maniac #957

posted: 10/16/2008 at 2:36 PM
modified: 10/16/2008 at 2:42 PM

Quote from DoppleBock on 10/15/2008 at 5:45 PM:

Can I ask what purpose you are running 400s?

First, I have no idea what my 5K race pace is right now, coming off a long period of recovery from a tendon strain and before that, marathon training (i.e. lots of miles but not much speed). I’m running 400’s because: 1. I am slower than dirt right now and need to re-learn how to run faster (not super-fast, that'll never happen, just faster). 2. Doing 400s, I can run at paces that I am unable to maintain for much longer than that yet (without hurting something). But after I do that workout for several weeks, I will be able to maintain that pace for longer, with less difficulty, and then I can increase my time/distance at that pace. 3. I like intervals. It’s fun to play games with speedwork and I like to vary it from week to week.

Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, "Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapenos."

Holly S.

Marathon Maniac #957

posted: 10/16/2008 at 2:37 PM

Quote from Mtnchk1 on 10/15/2008 at 6:03 PM:

well, there's fat...and then there's phat! Dictionary: phat (făt)

P.H.A.T. = Pretty Hot And Tight (Hey, I saw it in a movie once...) Big grin

Life is a headlong rush into the unknown. We can hunker down and hope nothing hits us or we can stand tall, lean into the wind and say, "Bring it on, darlin', and don't be stingy with the jalapenos."

Masters Running

Interval Question (Read 538 times)