Masters Running

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Public message to coastwalker - help with walking (Read 231 times)


MM#209 / JapanJoyful#803

    Hi Jay, Maybe making it public will keep it private about my starting to like walking too. I'm haveing a hard time figuring it out but, after avoiding ultras all these years because they were too hard for me to run all the way on my minimal training, I'm starting to realize that, with judicious walking, many are quite within even my range of fitness and, while doing my first marathon walk last weekend, I got to wondering if you might have any tips I could use. In particular, just as in running, it seemed that a more vigorous arm swing like in ChiRunning thrusting the elbows back 'til the hand reached mid-torso may have helped maintain a strong 14+m/m pace in the early miles but, later on, my shoulders were getting tired and, with arms hangin', paces slipped to 15-16m/m. Then I pumped my way to a 13:55 last mile. except for some real tired muscles I didn't even know I have on the tops of my arches, . . . and sore shoulders, I felt about the same tiredness as after running 26.2 miles but maybe that's because my ankles are already strong from barefoot running as much as possible. The biggest difference that seemed odd from running was that I couldn't take any walk breaks because I was already walking! After a run/walk ratio of 5-min/1-min run/walk in the 50K two weeks ago, I'm planning on 4:1 in tomorrow's 50 miles but have been thinking about possibly half and half towards the end and wonder if you ever do the opposite of walk breaks say, for example, run a minute every mile or every five minutes or something like that? Maybe that's what I'll be doing by mile 50 too but will be just as happy with all walking too. thanks. - your new walking partner

    "Enjoy yourself. Your younger days never come again." 100yo T. Igarashi to me in geta at top of Mt. Fuji (8/2/87)

    coastwalker


      Hi Tetsujin, I know that many runners look down on walkers, and we let them go on doing that so they won't discover our sekrit... 'Nuf of that. When I was first trying to figure out this racewalking stuff, someone explained the arm swing to me (and I think this can apply to 'regular' walking too): He said that you should work your arms like you are pulling a rope in a tug-of-war - keep your elbows at 90ยบ, and then reach forward and pull back hard till your hand is about even with your torso (at least part of which you are already doing - fantastic!). To objective of the arm swing in walking is to help maintain your forward momentum (so swing your arms forward and back instead of side to side), and to help propel your opposite leg forward to begin the next stride. So the harder/faster you pull back, the faster the opposite leg will swing forward. You found out in the early miles and the last mile of your marathon how much of a difference a good and powerful arm swing can make. Of course, you should stay as relaxed as possible while doing all this to help minimize arm and shoulder fatigue. That is not to say they won't get tired, 'cause they will. But you'll minimize the fatigue, and you'll get used to that which remains. I don't know about the tired muscles at the tops of your arches. If you are wearing shoes, I wonder if they might have too high a heel for walking? Racewalkers usually wear racing flats, more because of the low heel and flexibility of the shoe than for any other reason. If you walk with a high-heeled shoe (such as almost any regular running shoe), because walkers generally tend to hit more with their heel than mid or forefoot, you will impede your forward momentum and inhibit a smooth rollover to a toe push-off if your heel is too high. I've also thought about how unfair it is that walkers don't get to take walking breaks because that is what they are doing all the time! I take running breaks every once in a while in training, just to break things up. But I can't do that in a race 'cause I'll get disqualified (in my own mind, even if not by race officials, such as when I racewalk in a running race). I will also tell you that I find racewalking more fatiguing over distance than running was when I ran regularly. At the end of a racewalking half marathon, I am usually completely depleted. I can't imagine racewalking any further than that. Of course, that may just be my own strange makeup... Anyway, welcome to the world of walking in races! I hope it suites you well, and look forward to reading about your experiences with it. And best of luck in the 50!! Jay

      Without ice cream there would be darkness and chaos.


      King of PhotoShop

        I wish this thread got more views and more replies. I would like to see a long thread on the exercise physiology of walking at pace, form (as Jay has started here), the benefits of fast walking during ultras for those new to them, muscle groups used in walking, the diet and strengthening involved in walking, and last but not least, the absolute focus one must have to do this well. I walked a ton while I was hurt, and like Tet, I tried to see how fast I could go. I can't remember my best mile, high 12's I think, but one of the most interesting things I learned about it was how hard you have to concentrate. JJJessee posted something recently about his walking and I meant to ask him how hard it was to concentrate on pace and form to sustain speed. I imagine in a race the walker certainly will focus, but for a runner, it is very easy to just relax, chat with someone, get distracted, and all of a sudden you have 14-minute mile. Thanks so much Tet for starting this. And you Jay for your always valuable contributions. Spareribs
        Rich in NH


          Well, I hope I'm not intruding, but after a winter of cross country skiing I've taken up Nordic Walking. A great way to cross train and excellent upper body workout. It works like this and does an excellent job as a way to recover sore running muscles as well... http://walking.about.com/cs/poles/a/nordicwalking_2.htm
          Mariposai


            No comments here, but I do want to say...safe journey and have fun taper boy.

            "Champions are everywhereall you need is to train them properly..." ~Arthur Lydiard

            coastwalker


              For those who are interested, there is a lot of information at this site (http://www.philsport.com/narf/) about racewalking technique, form, shoes, etc. Dave McGovern (www.racewalking.org) also has a lot of useful information on his site. Dave has published several instructional books on the subject, and he also gives terrific weekend clinics that include instruction on technique/form, stretching, and nutrition. Soon after I started racewalking I went to one of Dave's clinics, and it was incredibly helpful. I realize that few people are interested in becoming competitive racewalkers. But a lot of the information available on these sites can also be of value to those who want to be able to move with some speed during walking intervals in a running race. Jay

              Without ice cream there would be darkness and chaos.

                I'm very interested in this information as I try to incorporate walking in my long trail runs, and am getting ready for my first ultra (50k). Besides walking the hills, I know I'll have to incorporate walking into the flats as well. Keeping the attention to form and speed is difficulty as was mentioned, especially when people come by and you start chatting. With regard to improving the arm swing stamina, this has helped me with running and might help with the walking. You will need hand weights, up to 5 lbs. Stand w/feet hip distance apart, knees slightly bent. With weights in hand, swing arms back and forth as you would running/walking. If they came together at the front at the same time, you'd have a V formed at approximately sternum height. Do 50 reps (Left-Right = 1 rep). Work up to 3 sets of 50. This has helped me quite a bit with the fatigue I would experience in my arms. (PS - For the record, this runner never looks down on walkers. We're all out there gettin' in done in our own fashion, and at least we're all movin and staying healthy! Big grin )

                Leslie
                Living and Running Behind the Redwood Curtain
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