So i read some stuff online and I'm 90% sure I have a partial tear of the medial meniscus. All the symptoms match up--general pain throughout the knee, with sharp pains during activity along the inside of the knee. I read that it can heal with 6-8 weeks of rest unless the tear is in an area with poor blood flow, in which case surgery could be needed. I think mine is minor enough to rest but i'm going to have a Dr. at my church check it out for me. Anyone have experience with this? Dr. Schriver any thoughts?
Not happy about this. I'm signed up for Greenwood on June 9.
No personal experience but I have seen quite a few patients with a meniscal tear. Did you injure the knee? The medial usually tears when something falls against the outside of your knee and stretches the medial collateral ligament. Did the knee swell when the pain started? Does it pop or click when you bend your knee? Does it hurt all the time or only when you are bending it?
FWIW the best test is a good exam. After that you may need an MRI.
If your knee locks and won't straighten or bend you need to be seen right away.
I am the knee expert in these parts. Have you not noticed the MD on the mailbox? Having had multiple tears, one of which required surgery, I can say without hesitation, bummer Dude. There are some newish alternatives to surgery, HA injections- said to assist in redirecting blood flow to the less (and sometimes not at all) blood flowy areas surrounding the meniscus. Trouble is, you really DO have to rest it. No squatting or twisting, even stair climbing... My first tear and subsequent surgery followed a pretty rigorous post-op therapy plan with a lot of focus on strengthening my quads. Once you feel better, you might consider seeing a therapist- there's a good leg guy at Dosher. If you don't heal well, really think about the next step. For me, surgery was presented as my only option. I was a stupid kid and didn't really know I might have had other alternatives. I wish you luck, Buddy. Knees are nothing to mess around with! Take it slow.
Hyaluronic Acid would not be a good alternative to surgery If it is a big tear. In that case, surgery to repair the tear is usually the best option for long term knee recovery especially someone who plans to stay active. Removing the whole meniscus or shaving it down significantly used to be pretty popular but has been shown to lead to faster degeneration of the joint so is done more sparingly now.
My best advise is to get it checked out and diagnosed correctly fairly soon. If it locks, clicks or pops, get it evaluated even quicker.
Also look up medial collateral ligament strain and see if those symptoms sound similar. Your may realize how hard it is to diagnose a problem based on symptoms alone. You need a good knee exam
Josh, I have spent thousands of dollars (not kidding) on doctors and PTs for my running injuries It is very important to find a doctor who is a runner and who wants to keep you running. It is very easy to find a doctor or a physical therapist who will tell you to take some time off. You may be 100% correct. But you may not be correct. Different injuries can have the same symptoms. And sometimes the pain is not where the injury is. Go see Dr. Becker. You have nothing to loose. He is worth an $80 ( if your insurance won't pay anything) visit just to hear what he has to say. Maybe you need 6-8 weeks off but maybe you don't. He is not typical in telling you to take some time off. His treatments are faster in healing than traditional PT. But you won't know til you try and try and try.
Good luck.
- itri -
Toats, Pete! Your buddy, Terry Daviis did me a solid pre B2B will a round of cortisone- not that it was a solution, but it helped short term. He felt strongly against removal/ shaving as well... Unfortunately, my original procedure included the latter. Oftentimes, the surgical route creates more complication and discomfort. ;(
Just to echo what Traci said, it is also easy to find a "Dr" who tells you never to run again. It is important IMHO to find someone "sports oriented" to help you get back to normal activity which should include running again.
On the bright side, I recently started a thread about Sponsors for a triathlon and the demographics of the average triathlete. One thing they didn't mention is how much triathletes and runners spend on medical care including splints, rehab etc. We should also approach some of these guys to sponsor Tri the Ridge. The Set-Up series is partially sponsored by the Steadman Hawkins clinic and their local Tris usually usually get Proaxis Excel or some other PT and massage therapy groups. Dosher has been a sponsor in the past
thanks for the adivce! the doc I know from church is Matt Roberson of Upstate Bone and Joint (easley). He's an orthopaedic and he's sports-minded. he even did caine halter tri 2 years ago. anyway, I'm starting with him tomorrow and I'll go from there! Peter, do you know him? Traci, is Dr. Becker a chiropractor or an M.D.? or both?
I know Dr. Roberson and that would be a good place to start. Make sure you ask Matt to sign up for the Tri the Ridge triathlon and see if he wants to be a sponsor. I don't know Dr. Becker so I can't really comment on that.
I doubt you will find a chiropractor/MD combo. There are too many philosophical differences. But it doesn't mean they can't work together or use different modalities for treatment.
I'm not a doctor, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express before. As you know, I'm recovering from an MCL strain - not a tear, but a grade II (maybe III) strain. Mine was not in the meniscus, but more to the interior. I kept running at low intensity and a low amount of volume (8 minutes to be exact with 15 seconds running and 15 seconds walking) and mine would not heal - I also kept biking, which didn't bother it, but I'm sure it didn't help. And swimming. Kicking too hard off the wall would make it achy, and sometimes just the kicking process made it ache. I finally gave in and stopped everything and it began healing. Total time for me was 12 weeks or so, maybe a little less, maybe a little more. My training totally stopped, but it came at a good time for me due to my business. Otherwise it would have sucked much more. Bite the bullet and do what you have to do - if a few months off of training sounds awful wait til you hear 6-12 months off with surgery. Fix it early and get it out of the way. I just had a friend undergo meniscus surgery. Painful and a long healing process...very long, and maybe resigned to only short distance runs from now on.
I'm betting you do not have a tear. The tear is some serious pain and I don't think you'd have been able to pull out a 19:30 5K otherwise, but if it hurts more now, you could have torn it during the 5K. Most times with a tear, you will feel that immediate pain and know at that moment that you just did a big boo boo. If the pain gradually came on afterwards, most likely a strain...but not necessarily.
Dr. Becker. Not an MD. He is a chiro but he does not do the typical chiro stuff on you. He is certified to do ART (Active Release Therapy) and Graston, which is a deep tissue technique done with stainless steel instruments that will make you cry for mommy. It hurts, simple as that...but it is extremely effective. However, if you have a tear, it won't do you any good and could even make it worse. But, he can definately help during the recovery process. If you have an MRI or Scan and it does not reveal a tear, then I'd say check Becker out. Your insurance will pay most of it...it will cost you $15-$30 a visit unless your deductible hasn't been met. Then maybe $40ish. With our deductible met, it cost me around $12-$18 everytime I went.
Steadman Hawkins. My story. I had my shin problems last year that kept me from running at all. Docs at Steadman Hawkins told me what was wrong, sent me to a PT for 3 weeks, but I didn't get better - actually got worse. I went back, they did an MRI and immediately put me in a boot and told me I had a stress fracture. I told them my signs were not that of a stress fracture and commenced to tell them what I thought was wrong. They disagreed and didn't care that I had stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. They told me to wear the boot 24 hours a day except for showering, and to stay off of it as much as possible for up to 12 weeks. I said "Ummm, I don't think so - I disagree with your prognosis, and I still have my receipts for Holiday Inn". I found Dr. Becker, told him my story and told him how much pain I was in. Long story short, I was running again in 3 days and haven't had the problem since.
Not bad info from a Dr. who received his training at Holiday Inn Express and has a diploma to prove it.
My biggest question is whether or not you ran the 19:30 with knee pain or if the 19:30 caused it?
thank you everyone for your help and advice! Dr. Roberson gave me a quick exam during his lunch break today and basically he wasn't able to pinpoint the exact problem. He said i should either 1) go ahead and get the MRI to see what's up. or 2) take advil for 2 weeks straight and rest it and see how it does. I told him I wanted to get the MRI so I would know for sure and I made an appointment. Later in the day I started thinking more about the money and I looked and saw that we have met $0 of our deductible for the year. So i have decided to rest it first and see what happens in a couple weeks. I need to try to avoid spending that much money. Looking back, I haven't stayed off of it for more than 2 days in a row and those 2 races probably didn't help. So i'm going to start taking it easy.
In the new LAVA magazine (triathlon mag) there is a section about health/supplements/recovery etc and this is what it says about Advil (and other NSAID's): they actually slow the healing of injured muscles, tendons, ligaments and bones. this is because they work by inhibiting the production of prostaglandins, which are substances involved in pain, but also in the creation of collagen, the building block of most tissues. It goes on to say more, but that's the gist.
Have you guys ever heard that before? Peter, thoughts? I've been using Advil and Voltaren (topical NSAID cream) for the last few weeks. And ice here and there.
Peter to answer your question: during warm ups for both races, there was some sharp pain, but once i got warmed up and shortened my strides, the sharp pain went away and there was just a more dull discomfort during the races. For the last few weeks there have been occasions of sharp pain, but mostly just discomfort. it's those sharp pains on the inside of the knee that scared me. Roberson mentioned that pain in that location is usually meniscus related. so i'm just not sure. I hope it's something else.
I am not a big fan of using NSAID (Motrin, Advil, Aleve...) or any drugs for that matter. I prefer to suffer in silence and allow the body's natural healing process take over. NSAID and aspirin inhibit that process. A healthy diet with antioxidants helps the healing process. I get most of my antioxidants from fresh berries. Nothing special just what is available, strawberrys should be available locally now.
You may want to re-evaluate your shoes. I'm sure you have already considered that but as you age, your bone structure changes
You just fell victim to the typical recovery answer. You saw a great orthopedic surgeon whose specialty is not runners and knee pain. Rest and IB will help because you are not running. Maybe that's all you need. All injuries get fixed with rest and IB don't they? But you're gonna rest for a while. It will feel better. You will start training again. It will feel good. Then because you haven't found out what the problem is and addressed the issue it may come back. You said you wanted to know what it was, yet you are going to rest and hope it is something else. Go see Dr. Becker and you will have a better understanding of what it is and what you need to do. I really don't get free visits or kickbacks from my referrals. I've just had success with his treatments.
You remind me of shopping with Shannon. I ask her which shoe to buy. The one on the left or the one on the right. She says get the one on the right. I buy the one on the left. She says "What'd you ask me for?"
You just fell victim to the typical recovery answer. You saw a great orthopedic surgeon whose specialty is not runners and knee pain. Rest and IB will help because you are not running. Maybe that's all you need. All injuries get fixed with rest and IB don't they? But you're gonna rest for a while. It will feel better. You will start training again. It will feel good. Then because you haven't found out what the problem is and addressed the issue it may come back. You said you wanted to know what it was, yet you are going to rest and hope it is something else. Go see Dr. Becker and you will have a better understanding of what it is and what you need to do. I really don't get free visits or kickbacks from my referrals. I've just had success with his treatments. You remind me of shopping with Shannon. I ask her which shoe to buy. The one on the left or the one on the right. She says get the one on the right. I buy the one on the left. She says "What'd you ask me for?"
Traci, I will make an appointment with Dr. Boris Becker immediately. In fact it sounds like I will probably see you there!
I just found his website.... this is him, right?