Running-Wizard

1

Legs vs lungs: another interval question (Read 26 times)

    Hey guys! I've noticed an interesting phenomenon during the anaerobic phase and wonder if anyone else has the same thing. During my anaerobic repeats, I notice I'm not breathing too heavily, when I take my heart rate right after a repeat it's around 150, so not terribly high, and after a minute or so of jogging it's back around 100. Yet my legs seem to be lagging in fitness, major lactate buildup during the last repeat and they just feel, I dunno, not weak, but not as fit as my cardiovascular system seems to be. Like, while I'm running the repeats, it's the legs that are causing me the most distress, and not (as I would have expected) the fact that I am breathing really hard. It's kind of strange. I'm not running that fast, e.g. today I did my 1600's between 7:30 and 7:45-ish.

     

    Anyone else? Does this mean anything? I feel like maybe this means it's a good thing the coordination phase is coming up to whip those legs into shape...like perhaps a bit of sprinting would be just the thing...or maybe I should run up some hills. Or maybe it's normal, and I've just forgotten because it's been a while since I did any fast running.

      Harriet:

       

      This is a very good question and I'm glad you brought this up here.

       

      My short answer is: don't worry about it...for now!! ;o)

       

      I've said this (can't even remember where...) many times; Lydiard training is an over-all training plan.  It pretty much contains EVERYTHING you'll need to race well.  What's more is that they are all placed in the right timing of development.  If you look at the entire Running Wizard plan, you'll see a workout like 50/50 toward the end...  It's all there.  It's good that you have a question like this--keep that in mind.  And when the time comes, remember this. ;o)

       

      You're probably absolutely right about your assessment on your leg condition (well, sorta...).  Chances are; it's not so much of "lactate build-up" that's causing sluggishness.  First of all, if your HR is not super high, you're probably not even creating that much lactate to affect your leg muscle function.  You hear all those fancy terms all over the place and you take that as a ordinary thing.  But, really, 90% of people talking about those things have no clue what they're talking about it--so ignore them!!  But here's my theory (only a theory); as you said, you probably have a very good cardiovascular fitness.  The fact that your HR stays fairly low even during interval training (however, I actually question your "race time"--it says 11.8km in 59-minutes...is it really your race time?  For that, 8-minute pace for an hour's race, 7:30 interval pace is probably right.  But, chances are, your racing fitness is much higher than that.  Maybe....just maybe, you may be able to handle a bit faster interval workout???  I wouldn't know.  And this is a kind of situation I'd use one of the Golden Rules; "If in doubt, do less (or easier).") indicates your cardiovascular fitness is very good.  Maybe too good???  Your body (legs) is trying to move fast but your heart is not catching up...  If you've done run-walk routine, you may realize that, after a short rest, even a short one, as you start up running, you feel a bit of a lag...  A superbly conditioned heart comes down the beat very quickly--even within 15-20 seconds, it starts to come down.  And it would have to start beating faster again.  If you stop and rest, instead of active recovery like jogging, during interval workout, it would be very difficult to get going again because your HR comes down very quickly and it would have to start pumping lots of blood back again; and you'll feel your legs stiffened up.  Maybe THAT is what you're experiencing.  Not so much of waste products build-up but stiff leg because you're not getting enough blood flow to the working muscles right at the start of the run.

       

      I think your assessment of doing some short sharp sprint work or hill sprint may help develop your legs.  But, like I said, we got it in the final weeks.  You do 100/100 or 50/50; if done correctly, only a few laps of this and you'll be sucking air and your legs will feel like rubber.  But this would sharpen you like there's no tomorrow!!  You see, training shouldn't be done spontaneously (I call that "crap shooting").  You put them all together in a balanced way and you follow it.  No point doing sprint work like that 2 months before the race--you'll sharpen yourself to the peak a month before the race!!  Then you'll throw your peak condition down the drain.  You will most likely be beyond the peak.  Running Wizard provides all the right combination, within the time that you have, and already put together all the workouts in a balanced way.  Hence I call this "Idiot proof Lydiard".  You don't have to read the books, grasp the idea, digest it and apply it to yourself...  You don't need to do that; the Wizard will do it for you.  All you need to do is to trust the program and follow it.  Simple!! ;o)

      Hey guys! I've noticed an interesting phenomenon during the anaerobic phase and wonder if anyone else has the same thing. During my anaerobic repeats, I notice I'm not breathing too heavily, when I take my heart rate right after a repeat it's around 150, so not terribly high, and after a minute or so of jogging it's back around 100. Yet my legs seem to be lagging in fitness, major lactate buildup during the last repeat and they just feel, I dunno, not weak, but not as fit as my cardiovascular system seems to be. Like, while I'm running the repeats, it's the legs that are causing me the most distress, and not (as I would have expected) the fact that I am breathing really hard. It's kind of strange. I'm not running that fast, e.g. today I did my 1600's between 7:30 and 7:45-ish.

       

      Anyone else? Does this mean anything? I feel like maybe this means it's a good thing the coordination phase is coming up to whip those legs into shape...like perhaps a bit of sprinting would be just the thing...or maybe I should run up some hills. Or maybe it's normal, and I've just forgotten because it's been a while since I did any fast running.


      Happy

         ... Running Wizard provides all the right combination, within the time that you have, and already put together all the workouts in a balanced way.  Hence I call this "Idiot proof Lydiard". 

        ...

        I will take the above quote as a personal challenge! Smile

        "Strawberry cheesecake is my absolute favorite thing to eat after a marathon."  -- Meb Keflezighi

          Hello Nobby,

          thank you so much for your very detailed answer! The explanation makes sense. I eagerly await the sprinting part of my plan to whip these legs into shape.

           

          You asked about my race times. That 11.8 km race was a muddy, hilly x/c race on a hot day last September and I wasn't really "racing" at all (though it was a good effort!) Later that month I ran a 10k in 45:26, and that's the time I used when I signed up for Running Wizard. Maybe that 45:26 isn't even a good indication of "racing fitness", though, as I didn't really train to race. I spent all last year getting back into shape after having a baby, and my running consisted of 100% easy running with a baby jogger, 40km/week or so, with no real long runs. Still, 45:26 is a decent time for me. My pre baby 10k PR is 45:10 and my best half marathon was 1:40:07.

           

          As for the 1600m anaerobic repeats, I picked my pace based on the following factors: a) 1/4 effort = "easy"; b) recommended pace on the pace chart was 7:38 for 1600; c) in the past I have tended to do repeats way too fast, like 6:55 -7:00 for 1600, which is a pace that makes no sense, so I was trying to err on the side of being conservative for once.

           

          Anyway, thanks again, and no worries, I won't change the plan!!

           

           

          Harriet:

           

          This is a very good question and I'm glad you brought this up here.

           

          My short answer is: don't worry about it...for now!! ;o)

           

          I've said this (can't even remember where...) many times; Lydiard training is an over-all training plan.  It pretty much contains EVERYTHING you'll need to race well.  What's more is that they are all placed in the right timing of development.  If you look at the entire Running Wizard plan, you'll see a workout like 50/50 toward the end...  It's all there.  It's good that you have a question like this--keep that in mind.  And when the time comes, remember this. ;o)

           

          You're probably absolutely right about your assessment on your leg condition (well, sorta...).  Chances are; it's not so much of "lactate build-up" that's causing sluggishness.  First of all, if your HR is not super high, you're probably not even creating that much lactate to affect your leg muscle function.  You hear all those fancy terms all over the place and you take that as a ordinary thing.  But, really, 90% of people talking about those things have no clue what they're talking about it--so ignore them!!  But here's my theory (only a theory); as you said, you probably have a very good cardiovascular fitness.  The fact that your HR stays fairly low even during interval training (however, I actually question your "race time"--it says 11.8km in 59-minutes...is it really your race time?  For that, 8-minute pace for an hour's race, 7:30 interval pace is probably right.  But, chances are, your racing fitness is much higher than that.  Maybe....just maybe, you may be able to handle a bit faster interval workout???  I wouldn't know.  And this is a kind of situation I'd use one of the Golden Rules; "If in doubt, do less (or easier).") indicates your cardiovascular fitness is very good.  Maybe too good???  Your body (legs) is trying to move fast but your heart is not catching up...  If you've done run-walk routine, you may realize that, after a short rest, even a short one, as you start up running, you feel a bit of a lag...  A superbly conditioned heart comes down the beat very quickly--even within 15-20 seconds, it starts to come down.  And it would have to start beating faster again.  If you stop and rest, instead of active recovery like jogging, during interval workout, it would be very difficult to get going again because your HR comes down very quickly and it would have to start pumping lots of blood back again; and you'll feel your legs stiffened up.  Maybe THAT is what you're experiencing.  Not so much of waste products build-up but stiff leg because you're not getting enough blood flow to the working muscles right at the start of the run.

           

          I think your assessment of doing some short sharp sprint work or hill sprint may help develop your legs.  But, like I said, we got it in the final weeks.  You do 100/100 or 50/50; if done correctly, only a few laps of this and you'll be sucking air and your legs will feel like rubber.  But this would sharpen you like there's no tomorrow!!  You see, training shouldn't be done spontaneously (I call that "crap shooting").  You put them all together in a balanced way and you follow it.  No point doing sprint work like that 2 months before the race--you'll sharpen yourself to the peak a month before the race!!  Then you'll throw your peak condition down the drain.  You will most likely be beyond the peak.  Running Wizard provides all the right combination, within the time that you have, and already put together all the workouts in a balanced way.  Hence I call this "Idiot proof Lydiard".  You don't have to read the books, grasp the idea, digest it and apply it to yourself...  You don't need to do that; the Wizard will do it for you.  All you need to do is to trust the program and follow it.  Simple!! ;o)

            I will take the above quote as a personal challenge! Smile

             

            You beat me to it Big grin

            JML


              I will take the above quote as a personal challenge! Smile

               

              Please....I have the market cornered on being an idiot.  After all.....I gamely followed the FIRST plan for two training cycles (ouch).  This should definitely support my idiot credentials!

               2014 goals: run a bunch....race some.....repeat...