Trailer Trash

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What Separates Them From Us? (Read 84 times)

Birdwell


     

    Don't be confused by your Ultrasignup ranking. A 75% doesn't mean you're in the top 25% of the sport. In reality, you would probably be consistently placing in the top 10% of all your races. Your ranking is based on the finish time of the winner of the race. I usually carry a 72% or 73% ranking and it's not likely to improve much because I have so many races under my belt, so it would take a lot of 100%'s to move the needle much.

     

     

     

    Regardless, your ranking is pretty useless. It's best to prove it out on the trail and let the "other guys" gloat about their imaginary place in the sport.

     

    I've noticed that about the rankings, thanks for the explanation of how they work. To clarify, I want to finish in the top 25% in the events I do (eventually, I still have a ways to go) . The 75% ultrasignup ranking is exclusive of that (and probably won't ever happen based on my first few events, but I can still dream, right?)

     

    I completely agree with your last sentence, prove it in the race.

    Daydreamer1


      It's impossible to discount the impact of genetics. Consider basketball players. There are some who are shorter then 6 ft but can easily dunk, while others who are in the 7 ft range only dream of dunking. Why simple genetics. It's the same with any sport and in ultra running there are so many parameters that have to be taken into consideration. For example, balance. Watch a video of Killian descending and you see a man with incredible balance. My grandfather was a very good carpenter but was unable to walk across a 6 inch beam, he simply didn't have the balance. I inherited those genes. At  Hyner  last weekend I was amazed at how some of the 50K runners who passed me were just bounding down the technical slopes. One man who was probably in my age group (40-49) looked like a mountain goat jumping from rock to rock when he passed me and he was singing while he was doing it!!!  Even with a strong ankle I would have had to pick my way through the rocks. Given my family history I know this is based on genetics. We all tend to have subpar balance.

       

      This is just one example. As has been pointed out already when everything comes together for a person, including genetics, training, desire, opportunity, then you have an elite athlete. Change just one parameter and the athlete can easily become just average.


      Uh oh... now what?

        ...always looks too blathery the next day

        dpc3


          I agree with what everyone is saying here but the one thing I noticed while pursuing a career in Soccer was there is a bit of luck involved in getting to the next level and it starts at a young age. You might be saying what does this crazy slow ass know.

           

          While my example comes from a team sport this is it: First and foremost its having the talent (genetics, drive, etc) but It's also being on the right team, at the right tournament (i.e., race), having a coach who likes you and promotes you to the higher level, being selected to participate in elite training, and finally recognizing the opportunity in front of you and going for it. I don't necessarily think this all is a huge factor in the equation, maybe 10% but I think it's the percentage that pushes many folks over that edge between a really good athlete and a elite athlete. How this translates into the running world I have no idea but it's something to consider possibly maybe.

           

          I like Harrier idea of drinking beer around a campfire and discussing this into the wee hours.

            My brother and sister are morbidly obese. They claim it's due to genetics. I just scratch my head at that.

             

            My 2 brothers, parents, aunts,  uncles, cousins, grandparents, jeez....just about EVERYONE in my family is, or has been, morbidly obese. They, too, say it's genetic (as they stuff another cheeseburger down their throats.) I love cheeseburgers as much as the next guy/gal, but I have the sense to burn it off later...

             

            I have always wondered this question as well (the original post question) I know that I never had the "natural" runner body, which I think is why I hated running so much as a kid...it was just plain hard and did not come naturally.

             

            I think that starting young is very important. I read tons of bios of runners, and it seems that so many of them started in middle school or high school track and/or cross country. Having that foundation seems to help a lot.

             

             

            I think for some of us, we can work as hard as we want, eat perfectly, and train perfectly, and will only hit a certain level of performance. What Birdwell said seems to make sense about it being "90% training, 10% genetic" even if it was made up Smile

            TrailProf


            Le professeur de trail

              Genetics and Physiology YES!!!! But don't discount that physiology can be changed or altered.  Killian Jornet was raised in the mountains (thinner air) and his mom used to take them on long hikes even from an early age.  Maybe Killian has a gift in terms of his ability to use energy from fat, Vo2 levels, etc. but not sure if things would quite be the same for him if he grew up at a lower altitude, inhaling secondary smoke, eating processed foods.  Obesity can somewhat be genetic ("my mom was big boned so I am big boned") but eating habits are learned behaviors.  Smoking and drinking too much are learned behaviors.  Lethargy and "sitting on your backside" are learned behaviors.  Studies have shown that with training,certain physiological functions can change.  BUT only to a certain point.  There are too many factors to mention (i.e. the make up of the tendons, ligaments, muscles, skeletal structure).  I could go on and on and on...

               

              I have come to grips that I will never be "fast" although it doesn't stop me from trying to better myself.

              My favorite day of the week is RUNday

               

               

              FTYC


              Faster Than Your Couch!

                Genetics and Physiology YES!!!! But don't discount that physiology can be changed or altered.  Killian Jornet was raised in the mountains (thinner air) and his mom used to take them on long hikes even from an early age.  Maybe Killian has a gift in terms of his ability to use energy from fat, Vo2 levels, etc. but not sure if things would quite be the same for him if he grew up at a lower altitude, inhaling secondary smoke, eating processed foods.  Obesity can somewhat be genetic ("my mom was big boned so I am big boned") but eating habits are learned behaviors.  Smoking and drinking too much are learned behaviors.  Lethargy and "sitting on your backside" are learned behaviors.  Studies have shown that with training,certain physiological functions can change.  BUT only to a certain point.  There are too many factors to mention (i.e. the make up of the tendons, ligaments, muscles, skeletal structure).  I could go on and on and on...

                 

                I have come to grips that I will never be "fast" although it doesn't stop me from trying to better myself.

                 

                Well said, Jamie, good points. I agree.

                 

                I'm not a fast runner, either, sometimes I make it into the top 25%, sometimes I'm in the bottom third. Depends on who the other runners are. And I'm even worse at biking. Still, this does not prevent me from having fun with these activities, sometimes challenging myself and participating in a race. I am interested in how I rank compared to the field, but honestly, I am more interested in watching my own progress (and that does not always mean I'll be faster, it can also be other aspects).

                 

                One day, I might not be racing any more, just because I might find that there's no point to it (not necessarily because I consider myself too slow, rather just because it does not give me a kick any more). I have run for more than 25 years without a race, and always been happy doing it. Me being actively involved in races now, and running very long distances, is more of a "phase" than what I have really set my heart onto. But I have to admit, it took me many years to realize and be able to accept that I won't be a star in the running world (well, then my "world" was a bit smaller than it is now, so I guessed my chances weren't so bad for being at least a local star, but not even that worked out).

                 

                And Kelly, thank you for explaining the ultrasignup ranking!!

                Run for fun.

                Messenjah


                  This is one of my favorite sayings for people that love to post their splits on facebook and about their speed sessions


                  Occasional Runner

                    I had an interesting conversation with a girl that I run with (infrequently). I've know here for several years and I was the one that got her into running. The conversation reminded me of this thread.

                     

                    She's running a road HM in a couple of months and wants to PR in a big way, so she was asking me for training advice. Her PR is 1:55 right now. After several minutes of discussion, I asked her what her goal was for the race, because she kept talking about this BIG PR. So she tells me she's shooting for a 1:10!

                     

                    I explained that the MENS Olympic Qualifying Standard is 1:05. That's the A-Standard, which means they'll pay all your expenses to attend the Olympic Trials. And once again, that's for MEN.

                     

                    She was unimpressed and continued to press me for an explanation as to why I think she's reaching a bit too far. This led to a discussion about the difference between her, and the most elite female runners. For a lot of us, improvements in running come in huge leaps and bounds when we fist start running. As time goes on, the improvements in performance slow dramatically. Instead of shaving huge chunks of time off our splits, we struggle to shave a single second, then later, fractions of seconds. It's at this juncture that the elite runners are separated from the rest of us. While we reach our peak, they continue to improve and ultimately, outperform us, and eventually hit their peak, landing in the midst of the elite crowd.

                     

                    But it's still very hard to explain why that is. I think the comments on this thread are probably pretty accurate, though. However, I really believe the physical differences are probably very minuscule. While genetics is likely to play a key role, I think those genetic gifts would be unknown without good coaching at an early age. Once a coach, or other party realized the potential, it was nurtured and developed. But for even that to matter, there must be a serious desire and full commitment by the runner.

                     

                    The fact is, those genes may reside in many of us, but they were never recognized and ultimately developed and exploited so we could reach the potential we were capable of. So, the point is, genetics may be a critical component, but they won't make you an elite runner without the other components. And even at that, I have to believe there's ample room for failure along the way.

                     

                    Maybe some of the "Very Decent" runners among us are genetically gifted but underdeveloped. They run very well, but don't even know they could have been elite if things had been different.

                    jamezilla


                    flashlight and sidewalk

                      The fact is, those genes may reside in many of us, but they were never recognized and ultimately developed and exploited so we could reach the potential we were capable of. So, the point is, genetics may be a critical component, but they won't make you an elite runner without the other components. And even at that, I have to believe there's ample room for failure along the way.

                       

                      Maybe some of the "Very Decent" runners among us are genetically gifted but underdeveloped. They run very well, but don't even know they could have been elite if things had been different.

                       

                      I've given this a lot of thought also.  I don't believe that what makes an elite runner "elite" is a super-rare genetic code (yes genetics plays a part, indisputably).  I agree that there are underdeveloped "very decent" runners...there are also probably guys who weigh 400+ pounds that have the right genes to be an elite runner.  When you start comparing elites, the range of attitudes, physical traits, physiological traits, training regiments, type of coatching etc. is huge.  It seems impossible that they could all arrive at "elite" status, but they do.  It seems like there are very many "perfect" mixes of all those variables.

                       

                      Really an interesting question.

                       

                      **Ask me about streaking**

                       

                      MadisonMandy


                      Refurbished Hip

                        She's running a road HM in a couple of months and wants to PR in a big way, so she was asking me for training advice. Her PR is 1:55 right now. After several minutes of discussion, I asked her what her goal was for the race, because she kept talking about this BIG PR. So she tells me she's shooting for a 1:10!

                         

                         

                        Oh, please report back on the actual results.  And get her splits if you can.  Big grin

                        Running is dumb.

                        Chnaiur


                          This article felt really relevant for the discussion here:

                           

                          http://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/so-what-youre-a-slow-runner/?awt_l=CGgCQ&awt_m=3XEeg.hsRg5ttIP

                           

                          "In a recent conversation with former professional runner Ryan Warrenburg, he discussed how he’s hesitant to call himself an “elite” runner. Ryan has run 13:43 for 5k – I’d call that fast and worthy of elite status. Do you know where his time ranks him in the world? I don’t because it’s way outside the top 500 (sorry Ryan)."

                          3/8 Way Too Cool 50k WNS

                          4/19 Tehama Wildflowers 50k

                           


                          Uh oh... now what?

                            Is that a track or road time?  If track, indoor or outdoors?

                             

                            Here (in the U.S.) a 13:30 or lower would put you in the elite--if, by elite, we

                            mean those that will be in the mix for the top-3 finishers.  When you get to

                            Europe and the outdoor season it would be more like 13:15 at the slowest

                            and they might put you in the slow heat at that.

                             

                            Those last few seconds can just be a lifetime away.  One of the kids who

                            spent some time at our place finished his collegiate career with a 4:00:20

                            for the mile.  There are a lot of things he would have given up for that other

                            twenty-one hundredths of a second to be able to say sub4 in the mile.

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