Trailer Trash

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April Fools Mondaily (Read 48 times)

Sandy-2


    SRD.

     

    qotd (1): March milage was 203, just realized that that included a week in London, a week in Paris and a week in Edinburgh (no wonder I'm tired). February's milage was 43 due to a niggle that wouldn't go away.  Had to ramp up quickly for my little training jaunt next weekend.

     

    qotd (2):  Last week we warned a co-worker who is taking today off that her desk would be covered in Post-its when she comes back tomorrow.  (But of course we won't because we are too lazy.)  The joke is that she has been thinking about it all weekend...  (Actually probably not, but we'd like to think so...)

    tbd


    Occasional Runner

       

      So Lace, you think someone who runs 24-30 hours at MMT, Pinhoti, Virgil Crest, Leadville, Cascade, etc. should be kept out of the lottery? Everyone should go to the fast loop courses to qualify?

       

      Yes, that's what I'm saying. I'm also saying that a 13 hour 50 mile finish would keep you out of the lottery. Why not? My example is extreme, but Western States is already creeping towards a tighter standard for qualifying. They're just moving too slow.

      9/13- Mid Mountain Marathon

      9/26- Bear 100

      10/18- White Rim Trail FKT

      11/1- Javelina Jundred

      12/6- Cajun Coyote 100


      Ultra Cowboy

        And it has started....

        I'm a rambler, I'm a gambler, I'm a green lumber handler, I'm a gypo from Pelican Bay....


        Refurbished Hip

           

          Yes, that's what I'm saying. I'm also saying that a 13 hour 50 mile finish would keep you out of the lottery. Why not? My example is extreme, but Western States is already creeping towards a tighter standard for qualifying. They're just moving too slow.

           

          I would think it would be easiest to just eliminate being able to qualify with a 50 miler all together.


          Le professeur de trail

             

            Yes, that's what I'm saying. I'm also saying that a 13 hour 50 mile finish would keep you out of the lottery. Why not? My example is extreme, but Western States is already creeping towards a tighter standard for qualifying. They're just moving too slow.

             

            I don't agree with stringent qualifying standards except when they are meant to keep out people who would not be able to finish the race.  For example events like Hardrock, Badwater, etc. - it would be crazy to just let anyone in and then have to go fish them out from the course somewhere.  I disagree with making the qualifying standards so that ony fast people can get in.  Take the Boston Marathon and JFK 50 as examples.  I will be 80 by the time I can qualify for Boston.  Not that I have much desire to run it but it's the principle I suppose.  JMO.  I doubt I will ever have a chance at WS 100 and am very happy for those that do but where's the love for all us slow people? If it was about being fast, I would have given up a while ago.


            Uh oh... now what?

              The three-mile morning slog is done.  The fog hides the day.  Hmmm... will hope for sun and a couple of hours this afternoon.

               

              QOTD_1:  I think I stayed around forty for the month, given that I started back to work on the ninth I was happy to maintain.

               

              And now some editorial silliness about the ultra folks love to bash (playful use of the word and I have no interest or influence [added because of my sometimes mistaken identity] in WSER).

               

              Western would be creeping back to stricter standards. I ran an 8:30ish 50 miler with a friend to pull him into qualifying time. It wasn't pacing. Neither of us felt like running that day. We started "the conversation" as we left the first aid station. A 9-hour would have done it, but René wanted a cushion so he could walk the last two or three miles if needed.

               

              I support tighter (?) standards, but that just opens the two cans of worms, amongst other--courses and people. There will never be agreement of the difficulty, or lack of it, of courses. Heat, rocks, sand, hills versus mountains, loops, point-to-point, out and back, crew availability, even the frequency of aid stations (Plain anyone?).

               

              The 50-mile option still works as a weeder outer. I think they should eliminate the road or mostly-road 50-milers.  There are many great 50-mile trail races that will certainly tell you if you are making progress with fitness.

               

              An idea that got tossed around one night at a campfire near no one--include all courses, but limit the qualifiers to the top third of the field. No time limits imposed, but the much ballyhooed biggest and bestest could indeed be a fair claim. Someone far enough out from the flames that we could not identify him immediately said that would require a size-of-field qualifier so depth of talent was insured.

               

              As for the standards keeping people who could not finish out of a race, how does that work? There are DNFs from all segments of any entry field. Badwater is self-supported--probably the most expensive self-supported run in the world. Hardrock stays wonderfully rigid and deservedly so. The standards are not about the fastest only. There are many (from a select population sample for the statistically inclined) who can run under twenty-four hours for a hundred, but struggle to get into the upper third of the finishing percentile at the fifty-mile distance.

               

              The original premise was covering 100 miles on trails in, or under, 24 hours (horses could do it, why not a person)... it almost immediately got extended to include some slower folks. The increased number of entrants in ultramarathons in general has slowly skewed the finishers percentage curve to the right. To correspondingly relax the standards diminishes the image of biggest, bestest, and, correspondingly (but not factually) fastest.

               

              Too many egos need to run Western. There are 114 (just checked Stan's) one-hundred milers. That does not include the 24-hour runs. A person can easily run a hundred in just about any kind of terrain or weather desired and have enough hot-stove arguments to last a running life time.

              Wow... or ??? or !?!?!? -- there are over a dozen types of "Slams" get 'em!

               

              rgot

               

              John M. [Pacific Northwest version]


              Occasional Runner

                That's not a bad option either. There are a number of ways to deal with it, of course. And like it or not, something will happen to tighten it up because the current rate of lottery entrants is not sustainable. If the WSER wants to maintain it's self glorified position as the most esteemed 100 miler, they'll have no choice but to make it more exclusive.

                 

                To address XT's concerns about qualifying on flat, fast courses, they could easily impose a standard for elevation gain. Or they could eliminate the "easy" 100's like Rocky Raccoon, Javelina and Umstead.

                 

                Either way, I advocate getting rid of 50 mile races as a qualifier. If Western States is supposed to be sacred and exclusive, should it really be a first 100 miler for somebody? And what's wrong with exclusivity? Look at how well it works for Boston. Thousands of runners work their asses off for a shot to get into that race. Why do we think we should be able to coast into whatever races we want to run? There are very few carrots being dangled in front of ultra runners and I don't see how a little motivation could be a bad thing.

                 

                 

                An idea that got tossed around one night at a campfire near no one--include all courses, but limit the qualifiers to the top third of the field. No time limits imposed, but the much ballyhooed biggest and bestest could indeed be a fair claim. Someone far enough out from the flames that we could not identify him immediately said that would require a size-of-field qualifier so depth of talent was insured.

                 

                9/13- Mid Mountain Marathon

                9/26- Bear 100

                10/18- White Rim Trail FKT

                11/1- Javelina Jundred

                12/6- Cajun Coyote 100

                Watoni


                  SRD. I actually hit 50 trail miles in a week for the first time ever. 4 running days, then two cycling days with 30 minutes or so of threshold climbing each ride.

                   

                  QOTD: 136 miles, 24,000 feet vertical running; 120 miles, 16,000 feet cycling; 4 days alpine skiing (about 65K downhill).

                  QOTD(2): Not yet, I am not a big fan

                   

                  On the Western States question, I do think it is tricky. The cycling events I do hardly ever sell out and there are no quaifying times to start (there are to finish). So, I towed the line at my first double century and cranked out 206 miles and 18,000 feet of climbing. What if I had to ride a fast century first, or do an easier double in x hours? I am not sure I would have bothered. Now I ride this double (Devil Mountain) almost every year (skipped one year when I lived in Europe).

                   

                  Running events, however, fill up fast!!! Lake Sonoma 50 filled up in three hours, for heaven's sake! That race, which I thought was pretty local, is now stacked with tons of top runners (I see winners and top finishers of 2012 Western States, North Face 50 miler, Hardrock, 2013 Way Too Cool 50k, Antelope Island 100, etc. etc. etc.). Finishing top third in that would be sick. It is my first 50-miler and I am just hoping to finish.   I think a 9:30 cutoff there would be fair for WS100 based on the terrain (10,500 vertical up and down, singletrack, stream crossings) and folks that have gone on with sub 9:30 times to finish WS100 in under 24 hours.

                   

                  Leadville under 24 to qualify? I have seen people run WS100 in under 24 who have failed to do so at Leadville. Isn't the big buckle 25 hrs?


                  Le professeur de trail

                     

                    Look at how well it works for Boston. Thousands of runners work their asses off for a shot to get into that race. Why do we think we should be able to coast into whatever races we want to run?

                     

                    For these thousands there are multiple thousands that work just as hard but can't get in because they are not fast enough.  (insert argument, I mean discussion, on genectics versus how hard someone trains to equal their speed/pace).  Some people just are not cut out to move fast.  I know lots of "slow" people who simply love to be out there for hours and hours.  Running more or training harder may get some better results but reality is there are many people who just won't qualify because they cannot be fast enough.  So they (we) will never have a shot at Boston, or JFK, or WS or whatever.

                     

                    Having said that, I would myself be very frustrated if I was fast (snicker....) and had difficulty getting into a WS 100 or other because it was simply a lottery race admission and not a qualifying standard.  I see both sides.  I just so happen to be stuck on the slow side.

                     

                    I do agree that some 50 miler qualifiers seem a bit light/easy/moderate to be a realistic qualifier.  (i.e. Stone Mill 50 in Maryland - it is a qualifier for WS - ok.  The website also says (or said) it is a qualifier for UTMB - really? Makes no sense.  Stone Mill has no elevation change)


                    Uh oh... now what?

                      Leadville under 24 to qualify? I have seen people run WS100 in under 24 who have failed to do so at Leadville. Isn't the big buckle 25 hrs?

                      Yes, 25 hours for the platter at Leadville.


                      Snowdenrun

                        Hey Trailers!

                         

                        No running for me today. Unless I decide to go after work. I am enjoying my late coffee after sleeping in. I just passed my EMT test. The class made my life chaotic and I'm glad it's over. I need a few days to catch up on all the sleep I missed the past two months. Also, its pouring outside. Usually doesn't stop me from running, but I'm using it as an excuse today!

                         

                        QOTD: 150 miles for me this month. By far my highest month, and I can only see it getting higher from here!

                        mtwarden


                        running under the BigSky

                          6.5 miles in the hills, glorious day- again!  talking 50's and even low 60's for the rest of the week- yippie

                           

                          qotd: 128 miles, I'm satisfied w/ that as I missed an entire week w/ the flu and the next week wasn't overly productive either

                           

                          qotd 2: we have somewhat of a standing joke for new comers, leave them a sticky note to return a call for Myra Mains- unfortunately for them the number we leave is the funeral home (Myra Mains = my remains Big grin)

                                                                                     2014 

                          HURL Fat Ass 50k  1/11- DNS sick :(

                          Zion Traverse 47 miles 4/5 DNS :( stress fracture in heel

                          Don't Fence Me In 30k  14k 5/10 ✓

                          Pengelly Double Dip 13.1 miles & 3000' 6/7 ✓

                          Devils Backbone 50 mile (I'm running 25 as a two person relay) 7/19 ✓ Wow!

                          Ellkhorn 23k 8/2- this is a maybe- little close to the Bridger???? signed up :)  ✓ 

                          Bridge Ridge Run 20 miles 8/9  ✓ 

                          valerienv


                          Thread killer ..

                            150 in March for me,  5 months since knee surgery and making some progress . I'm not sure if I'll be able to fit in a run today I'm waiting on my horseshoer . I'm too old to wait on the Western States Lottery ,  there is no waiting list or lottery for the Tevis .

                            Watoni


                               

                              Yes, that's what I'm saying. I'm also saying that a 13 hour 50 mile finish would keep you out of the lottery. Why not? My example is extreme, but Western States is already creeping towards a tighter standard for qualifying. They're just moving too slow.

                               

                              Ok, but isn't the 50-mile cut-off 11 hours, even for hard courses?

                              Easier to discuss live, I suppose, but how about this:

                               

                              10-hour cut-off for 50-milers, all of which have to be effectively all trail and hilly

                              100 milers at 24 hours except for certain key events (Hardrock, UTMB, Wasatch, Leadville, Pinhoti?, etc.).

                               

                              Rationale: People should be able to qualify: (1) doing a hard trail 50-miler if they want -- they just need a fast time; (2) with a flatter 100 miler -- they need to do it in 24 hours; or (3) with a hillier 100 miler -- they need to finish within the time limit.

                               

                              If you are really fast, you can go out and win or get second in a Montrail Ultra Cup race Wink


                              Occasional Runner

                                 

                                Ok, but isn't the 50-mile cut-off 11 hours, even for hard courses?

                                Easier to discuss live, I suppose, but how about this:

                                 

                                10-hour cut-off for 50-milers, all of which have to be effectively all trail and hilly

                                100 milers at 24 hours except for certain key events (Hardrock, UTMB, Wasatch, Leadville, Pinhoti?, etc.).

                                 

                                Rationale: People should be able to qualify: (1) doing a hard trail 50-miler if they want -- they just need a fast time; (2) with a flatter 100 miler -- they need to do it in 24 hours; or (3) with a hillier 100 miler -- they need to finish within the time limit.

                                 

                                If you are really fast, you can go out and win or get second in a Montrail Ultra Cup race Wink

                                 

                                Are we negotiating?

                                 

                                I make a point of bringing this up at least 3 times a year. If nothing else, it's always interesting to hear the varying opinions on the topic.

                                9/13- Mid Mountain Marathon

                                9/26- Bear 100

                                10/18- White Rim Trail FKT

                                11/1- Javelina Jundred

                                12/6- Cajun Coyote 100

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