Hi, Folks - I just found you after Birdwell told me about this forum. I'm usually over in the Trailrunners or Ultra Trail Running forums.
When I got back into running in 2011 after almost 6 mos off due to injury, I transitioned from Mizunos for road and trail to Inov8 Road X-238 and Roclite 268. They're very comfortable and I love the wide toe box as every since I switched, I rarely have blister issues.
Unfortunately, I am now having AT tendonitis issues because of minor pronation. I've been in PT and have had custom orthotics made, but if I could find shoes to correct the problem, I'd rather change my shoes. I could spend endless hours reading about all the shoes and their recommendations, but I thought I'd come in here first and see if there are any suggestions. I'm female and wear a 10.5, which has always been an issue finding in the Inov8.
So looking for a women's trail running shoe to help with minor pronation and with a wide toe box. Any suggestions?
Leslie Living and Running Behind the Redwood Curtain -------------
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I am the master at injuries. I recently started with custom orthotics. Too soon I suppose to say if it will help overall. I had been running in Salomon Crossmax (stability version). They are a good sturdy trail shoe. I am not sure how they compare for the toe box though. I switched recently to Brooks Cascadia (which everyone raves about). They are very comfortable. The jury is still out if they right for me (due to my own retarded feet issues). But I read somewhere that for technical trail running, stability shoes don't really matter.
If you already have the orthotics, why don't you want to stick with those? You can pretty much wear any shoes you want. I will admit, they take a lot of getting use to them.
My favorite day of the week is RUNday
I also need a wide toe box area and I find the Cascadias too small. I have no experience with orthotics though.
Unfortunately, I am now having AT tendonitis issues because of minor pronation.
Just to clarify, did you indeed mean AT (anterior tibial) tendinitis, or did you mean PT (posterior tibial tendinitis), because you don't often hear of AT tendinitis connected with pronation, but you do with PT tendinitis.
You would look for different shoe features depending on which tendon is involved.
I'm Holden McGruyen. Would you like to join me?
I will check out the Mountain Masochist.
AT - Achilles tendonitis. Also some nerve issues akin to carpal tunnel, only with the feet. Left foot more specifically. (I'm just full if issues at the moment. )
I'm having A LOT of trouble with the orthotics. Talked with my PT today, and she is trying to revamp them, but in the end, I may not be able to use them due to the nerve issue. So she told me to look for a moderate motion control shoe in which I'm able to easily stick a finger down into the shoe between the side of the heel and the side of the shoe (for the nerve issues). The wide toe box is necessary for my monkey feet.
I will check out the Mountain Masochist. AT - Achilles tendonitis. Also some nerve issues akin to carpal tunnel, only with the feet. Left foot more specifically. (I'm just full if issues at the moment. ) I'm having A LOT of trouble with the orthotics. Talked with my PT today, and she is trying to revamp them, but in the end, I may not be able to use them due to the nerve issue. So she told me to look for a moderate motion control shoe in which I'm able to easily stick a finger down into the shoe between the side of the heel and the side of the shoe (for the nerve issues). The wide toe box is necessary for my monkey feet.
Hmmm...for the sake of discussion I am going to share more detail than I normally would. I have had issues with my tibialis tendon (runs throughthe arch and up near the achilles. I started with lots of pain near the achilles but not the actual achilles tendon. The pain/discomfort has really moved around and evolved a lot since this started in my feet (last summer) - similar to when someone with back problems goes to a chiro and then ends up with other aches and pains in the back ("it's normal" my chiro said years ago). I went to PT in the fall and went through a serious of strength exercises (both in the PT office and daily at home). The PT was trying to strengthen the ankles and knees (all good for trail running anyway). He wanted me to keep running so I did. I had on and off dull pain inthe sides of my fet (areas right next to the achilles). Sounds similar to maybe your nerve issue. The PT had taken my sockliner and built up the arch. This helped relieve some pressure (this might be an option for you - instead of a custom orthotic which is hard try a "middle of the road" orthotic). Eventually I just said I wanted to try the custom orthotic thinking we were going to end up there anyway. We did and I got used to them quickly. I built up my LRs to 17 miles in them with no issues. Still some days with dull pain though. Then it hit me. On a 21 mile LR the left orthotic caused pain in my arch (probably an internal bruise or some sort). Long story a little shorter - my PT has adjusted a couple of times, I have run in them on and off and then he is now trying a different material for the orthotics (something he is trying out for distance runners and most so far give him positive feedback). A couple of adjustments and now I am building distance in them currently. I ran a 50k three weeks ago and did not run in the orthotics (PT said not to). I had severe burning pain in the sides of my feet (again next to the achilles ut not on the achilles) anytime I had shoues on but not when shoes were off. Weird huh? I saw a podiatrist yesterday and he said I have Retrocalcaneal Bursitis. Not sure if that is close to your nerve stuff - I am still trying to figure what mine is exactly. But I am supposed to go back to PT and get a Tx called phonophoresis. The Dr also prescribed a silicon pad for the achilles area to wear. It is all very frustrating. But I wonder if a mid range soft orthotic would help you? My PT is a certified pedorthist so they are very good about figuring this stuff out.
(sorry for the long response)
Your long response is wonderful, and some of your symptoms seem to mimic mine. I get a burning sensation down the insides of my heels, and along the back. Doesn't matter if I'm wearing shoes or not. Also, when laying on my side, I can't lay my right foot on top of my left because it's uncomfortable. This has made my PT think I'm having nerve issues akin to carpal tunnel.
The orthotics are causing issues in that my left arch is not tolerating it well at all, and when I wear them, I get a burning sensation running up the insides of my calves. If I'm not using the orthotics, this doesn't happen.
The bursitis thing is very interesting. As I was reading the symptoms on the 'net, I pressed around on my left heel and the burning sensation started. You've given me something to discuss with my PT, and possibly with a podiatrist. Thank you.
Okay, thanks for clarifying.
I hate to second-guess your physical therapist since she actually got to examine you and really delve into your problem, but in general the best outcomes in treating Achilles tendinitis come from doing eccentric strengthening/stretching exercises.
http://yaroslavvb.com/papers/alfredson-heavy.pdf
http://www.ehow.com/way_6171315_achilles-heel-pain-exercises.html
There were some compelling arguments against using motion control shoes for any reason, overpronation or not, in the following book: http://www.amazon.com/Tread-Lightly-Footwear-Injury-Free-Running/dp/1616083743
Orthotics are one of the recommended treatments for tarsal tunnel syndrome, so trying to address both problems at the same time could be challenging. I don't know about everyone else, but I have a really hard time running any distances in orthotics.
Thanks for the info, Holden. I started with stretching and deep tissue massages to loosen up the calves, have been incorporating the toe raises for the last couple of weeks, and am starting exercises to strengthen the arches (the "pull the towel with the toes" thing). And unless she's able to work some kind of miracle, I just don't see the orthotics working. But we'll see.
Re the shoes - I went from no issues with the Mizunos (except excessive blistering due to too small of a toe box) to ITB and now AT issues with the Inov8's after only about a year and a half. I still a couple of pair of Mizunos with mileage left on them and plan to go back to them to see how things feel. I've always used my retired Mizunos just for every day use, so it shouldn't take too much to work my way back into them for running. If after wearing the Mizunos again for awhile things aren't improving, then we'll go from there.
I appreciate everyone's feedback. It's been very helpful. I'll be in San Jose next week for a conference. There's a running store called "Running Revolution" down there that supposedly does an in depth gait and arch analysis when fitting you into the appropriate shoe. I'm gonna check them out and see what happens.
+1 to seeing a podiatrist. My experience the other day was good. I am unclear if the bursitis thing is a different issue than what I started with, was caused from all the stuff I have been doing to correct the original issue or has been the problem all along. I think going back to the PT now will help understand this.
Some say that medicine should be an exact science. It is frustrating when doctors/PTs tell you what they think the issue is but many issues do not have a specific test (i.e. blood test) to determine if that is the issue. Having said that I appreciate the patience of my PT with trying to figure this out with me. (I don't appreciate the rising cost but hopefully soon it will all be resolved).
Keep us posted with how you are doing.
Some say that medicine should be an exact science. It is frustrating when doctors/PTs tell you what they think the issue is but many issues do not have a specific test (i.e. blood test) to determine if that is the issue.
So true, and even among specialists who treat a certain condition day-in/day-out you won't find 100% agreement on "the right way" to manage a problem. Runners are notoriously difficult to treat too because we resist the notion of adequate rest for an overuse injury, we resist the idea of invasive treatments (e.g., cortisone shots), and we tend to want to pick and choose our treatments rather than turn ourselves over to the treating clinician.
+1. We're a stubborn lot, aren't we?