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Ultra-Running Questions (Not of the kind you might think) (Read 68 times)

TrailProf


Le professeur de trail

    Not questions regarding “how do I train for an ultra?” or “how many calories do I need to take in during a 100 miler?” or even “can I run a 100 miler if I have never run a marathon?”  These are random questions about the overall culture of ultra-marathons that is definitely a growing culture.  Feel free to share your opinions (even if you have never run an ultra):

     

    Why are ultra-marathons becoming (or have become) so popular?

     

    Are ultra-marathons too popular? Too commercialized?

     

    Is the result that too many people think they can run longer distances and then do not put in the proper training? Does this put a big strain on RDs to have contingency plans for the people that drop due to undertraining? Or to have rescue teams available?

     

    There are ultra-races popping up everywhere.  Is it an issue of more demand so folks are trying to increase the supply? Is it because some races are becoming untouchable to most “mortal” runners by the qualifying standards and huge registration fees?

     

    Is ultra-running a fad?

     

    Is it really necessary to charge hundreds of dollars for some races? (note – I really have no clue how much permits and liability insurance costs for these things) – example – JFK increased their reg. fee a few years back by a lot.  Over $200 to run 50 miles??? Maybe this is why they did not sell out this year?!?

     

    Is finishing an ultra-race sexy? Is it a bragging right?

     

    Can one say they are an ultra-runner when they did the “one and done” thing by finishing one ultra and then deciding it wasn’t for them (or getting injured and never running that distance again)?

     

    Is it better to have DNF’d in your first attempt at an ultra than to have never tried?

    My favorite day of the week is RUNday

     

     

    AT-runner


    Tim

      Why are ultra-marathons becoming (or have become) so popular?  Not sure, but seems to follow the trend in the rise of 1/2 marathons and marathons.   Many of those finishers feel ready to move up to the next distance.  (FWIW, I'm happy anyone gets off the couch.)  For me it was a progression.  I got tired of running on the road and I had done more marathons than I wished to remember.

       

      Are ultra-marathons too popular? Too commercialized?  I've only seen this with the JFK, and I do feel the popularity has exceeded the actual race (and RD's) experience.  Not a big fan of overly commercialized races.  When I ran NYC Marathon years ago, I said "that sucked" because of how commercial and crowded it was.

       

      Is ultra-running a fad?  Possibly, for some, but a way of life for some as well.  I did Adventure Races before the Eco-Challenge was ever on TV.  After the show started, adventure races popped up all over and most are gone now.  I lost interest, in part, because of the "fad participants" who weren't ready for what they signed up for.  They've been around a while and will be for years to come, so "fad" only for some.

        

      Is finishing an ultra-race sexy? Is it a bragging right?  I don't have a blog (again, not a bad thing, I love reading them) or wear race t-shirts in pubic, but  I have a friend who bought $300 worth or merchandise at the JFK.  Some people like or need the "bragging right" to motivate them.  My friend is one of them, and he's a great runner.  For me, "I just felt like running" ~ Forrest Gump.  Neither of us is right or wrong, we just need different motivation.

        

      Is it better to have DNF’d in your first attempt at an ultra than to have never tried?  If the DNF is due to not being prepared, then  I lean towards, no.  I've always felt like you shouldn't toe the line at any new distance unless you're prepared for that distance.  Same goes for 10k - 100mile.  Too many injury possibilities.  Now some DNF's are out of our control and can't be helped and are much better than pushing through towards injury.

      “Paralysis-to-50k” training plan is underway! 

      wcrunner2


      Are we there, yet?

        I think part of the reason ultras are becoming more popular is the long is better attitude you see in road runners moving from 5K up the scale who want something more challenging than a marathon and they discover ultras. To them it's easier and more gratifying to continue to run longer than to make the changes in training necessary to run shorter distances faster.

         

        Ultras face a challenge that many/most road races don't face. The venues can handle only so many runners. You can fit 45,000 runners on the NYC streets. You can't do that on a trail. I don't think they are becoming too popular, just that certain ones are better known or highly recommended and they can't handle all the interest without morphing into something else which, so far as I can see, doesn't happen too often. New ultras are popping up to try to satisfy that demand.

         

        I can't see calling ultra running a fad. It's been around a long time and isn't about to disappear. It's nature may change as it has in the past from tracks to roads to trails and maybe back to roads and tracks again. My last ultra, the Clearwater 50K in its first year, was an add-on to the existing 5M, HM, marathon offering, so it was on the roads and a paved path rather than trails. I can see other marathons going this way also since it looks moderately easy to throw in a 5 mile out and back or loop to the marathon course so there isn't much additional needed in the way of volunteers and road closures.

         

        I don't know if they are becoming too expensive, but I see a wide range in the entry fees for races of the same distance and approximate field sizes. There are probably differences in quality that I haven't seen yet because I've run so few, so differences in costs based on location that I'm not aware of.

         

        I don't know about finishing an ultra being sexy, but friends, even runners, are impressed by my running ultras even though my results leave much to be desired in terms of quality. But then some of these same people would be impressed with a 5:30 marathon because any marathon impresses them.

         

        Labeling like that seems to me a useless endeavor. I've run 19 marathons including 3 Bostons and a national championship, but don't consider myself a marathoner. running a few ultras doesn't make me an ultra runner. At heart my favorite distances are shorter and if one must have a label, I'd still be a middle distance runner even though it's been well over a year that I've run a race some may classify as middle distance.

         

        DNF vs DNS? That depends on whether one was well enough prepared to finish under normal circumstances. If I'm prepared, even if only to reach the finish line while it's still up, then I'd go with a DNF over a DNS.

         2024 Races:

              03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

              05/11 - D3 50K
              05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

              06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

         

         

             

        FTYC


        Faster Than Your Couch!

          I don't know the answers, so I'll just write down my thoughts and opinion relating to your questions.

           

           

          Why are ultra-marathons becoming (or have become) so popular?

          I think it is because running in general is considered healthy, and as there are more people running, you'll have more thinking "longer is healthier". Running is also highly respected in the American society, e.g. a runner, regardless of the distance, gets more attention and appreciation than, say, a rower, a gymnast, or someone doing fencing. Maybe it's because everybody (runner and non-runner) can relate to running and its "difficulty", whereas nobody really knows about rowing or fencing. I have the impression running is considered to demand a lot of work, discipline, endurance, and willpower, which are all well-liked and highly desired traits in our society.

           

          Are ultra-marathons too popular? Too commercialized?

          What is too popular? I don't know. Too commercialized, no. There are only a few events which are well-known and commercialized, the rest is more like FA runs. Gear and equipment are being commercialized, but then, so is all running equipment. It seems people think if they use an elite runner's gear, that will make them faster and stronger, even if the majority of the people buying this gear uses it on short distances in the city.

           

          Is the result that too many people think they can run longer distances and then do not put in the proper training? Does this put a big strain on RDs to have contingency plans for the people that drop due to undertraining? Or to have rescue teams available?

          People not putting in proper training and running an ultra are definitely getting more. It may be because messages like "I did not train at all and still succeeded at 100 miles" (even if it's just minutes before cutoff) are easily ventilated and accessed. I guess it does put a strain on RD's, but on the other hand, that's what participants pay for, too.

           

          There are ultra-races popping up everywhere.  Is it an issue of more demand so folks are trying to increase the supply? Is it because some races are becoming untouchable to most “mortal” runners by the qualifying standards and huge registration fees?

          I think supply is trying to satisfy the increasing demand, and commercialization and the potential to make money in this business are driving this trend, too.

          I don't see qualifying standards to be a big hurdle, I think they are all well justified. High registration fees are charged for the high-profile races, just because there are so many runners who still are able to meet all other requirements, and still able to pay the high price. So the new ultras popping up might ensure registration fees will stay reasonable, unless the RD's are out to make a lot of money off their races, but that's not too likely to happen everywhere, as more new ultras will pop up.

           

          Is ultra-running a fad?

          Maybe, until the message has been spread that running longer distances is not really so great for your health.

           

          Is it really necessary to charge hundreds of dollars for some races? (note – I really have no clue how much permits and liability insurance costs for these things) – example – JFK increased their reg. fee a few years back by a lot.  Over $200 to run 50 miles??? Maybe this is why they did not sell out this year?!?

          Depends on the set-up of the race, and the location. Single-loop or point-to-point races require a huge logistic effort and a large number of volunteers, so a higher registration fee is justified than for a multiple-loop race. $200 for 50 miles is a bit high, though, especially considering the location and course.

           

          Is finishing an ultra-race sexy? Is it a bragging right?

          Some people think it gives them bragging rights, and even non-runners seem to think it is more special than finishing a half- or full marathon. Some of my friends (who don't run) were shocked when I told them that usually there's no crowd at the finish line of an ultra, and only if you're so lucky as to finish during daylight, there might be a few people around to congratulate you. They could not believe that there usually is no big award ceremony, and you don't get a framed finisher document, or necessarily a medal. They were most shocked that I do not care for that. I guess ultra running is overrated.

           

          Can one say they are an ultra-runner when they did the “one and done” thing by finishing one ultra and then deciding it wasn’t for them (or getting injured and never running that distance again)?

          I don't consider them ultra runners, no.

           

          Is it better to have DNF’d in your first attempt at an ultra than to have never tried?

          like the others said, if it's due to not being properly prepared, then no. But there are many other reasons why one might not finish a race, too, so it really depends.

          Run for fun.

          Daydreamer1


            Why are ultra-marathons becoming (or have become) so popular?  
            For a long time it seemed that the marathon was the pinnacle of running.  I haven't been running long, but it seemed to me that only a modest percentage of runners had did one. Then It became acceptable to run/walk a marathon and the number of people completing one soared. It may be possible that this spurred some runners to seek a challenge greater then  the marathon.  Ultimately, though I think that a large part of it has to do with the fact that most ultras are off road and on some kind of trail. I think that this may be what has led to the explosion of Ultras.

             

            Are ultra-marathons too popular? Too commercialized?

            Too popular? No. At least I don't think so. Anything that gets people moving is a good thing. Certain races may be too popular, like Western States,  but in general it's not a problem  Too commercialized? From my point of view not really, but then I don't attend any of the bigger races like Leadville. Again this may apply for certain races.

             

             

            Is ultra-running a fad?

            Yes and No. Undoubtedly there are those that have gotten into the ultra scene that won't be here in a few years. They were drawn to it because it was kind of new and growing. They will do a few and move on to something else as their interest wanes. For me that is  the definition of a fad. At the same time some will come to the Ultra scene and will stay, or at least  stay with trail running. Back in the 90s it seemed Mountain Biking was exploding. There were races everywhere. A couple of years ago I looked for some Mtn bike races and was surprised that the number of them had dropped off quite a bit from the 90s. So it will be with Ultra running and trail running. I expect dramatic growth followed by some contraction. It's that way with everything, from gold rushes to cross fit to pottery making.

             

            Is finishing an ultra-race sexy? Is it a bragging right?

            Not sure it's sexy but I do think that finishing one is something to be slightly proud of. Not butt hole, pounding your chest type proud of, but I have no problem with someone that states that they have done one and displays the award.  As far as how many Ultras one must do before they consider themselves a ultra-runner goes, that kind of depends. One or two places you in the category of having run a ultra, whereas constantly training to run ultras would mean you are a ultra runner.

             

            Is it better to have DNF’d in your first attempt at an ultra than to have never tried?

            Yes, but only if you made a legitimate attempt to properly train.  Races like Hyner (25k) and Megatransect have a high dropout rate from people that start training a month or two before the race and have no idea what they are getting into. While neither of these are Ultras they do demand respect and these people don't give it. They have nothing to be proud of. On the other hand there have been people who have attempted both races that have not been able to train as well as they wanted to due to circumstances beyond their control. Based on some of their comments they learned a lot even though they did not finish and have come back the next year and had a strong run.  Also, sometimes sickness and injury occur no matter how well one trains. I think part of the allure of an ultra is the possibility of defeat. I have more respect for the person who tries and fails then for the one that doesn't bother trying.

            XtremeTaper


              More runners equals more runners wanting to run ultras. Race fees thus become a thing of supply and demand. Only so many spots available, especially trail ultras due to permit constraints, thus RD's can raise prices since demand is so heavy. I don't mind so much, the higher fees since I don't race that frequently, assuming the fees are mostly going to hold the race and not line an RD's pocket. I think that would be pretty rare though.

               

              JFK jacked up prices because they could as it would sell out regardless. Heck, even little old Laurel Highlands doubled the fee since the first time I ran it in 2008. I really see this as ok as maybe it gives pause to some before pulling the plug and signing up. On the flip side it could keep runners with less resource out too I suppose.

               

              As for running ultra being sexy, there is nothing less sexy then the way I've looked and felt after some of my longer races. Finishing is more of a personal thing. We each have our own reasons. Writing or blogging about them seems like a normal thing as I often don't feel my race is done until I pen a few words. Even if it's just some random thoughts. It gives me a bit of closure I suppose.

               

              What else.. DNF? I don't even like to use that term. While there is nothing wrong with it, I honestly think too many runners go into an ultra with the mindset that a DNF is an acceptable outcome.

               

              As for labeling myself as an ultra-runner. No. I am a runner. A runner who sometimes runs ultras but most of all just a runner.

              In dog beers, I've only had one.

              LB2


                Why are ultra-marathons becoming (or have become) so popular? I am not sure about this one.

                 

                Are ultra-marathons too popular? Too commercialized? I think certain races have become extremely popular and very commercialized, but I don't know if that is good or bad. I just run the ones I am interested in and don't really care about the others.

                 

                Is the result that too many people think they can run longer distances and then do not put in the proper training? Does this put a big strain on RDs to have contingency plans for the people that drop due to undertraining? Or to have rescue teams available? I think lots of people either underestimate the distance/course or overestimate their abilities. I think the RD's need to think about every reasonable contingency.

                 

                There are ultra-races popping up everywhere.  Is it an issue of more demand so folks are trying to increase the supply? Is it because some races are becoming untouchable to most “mortal” runners by the qualifying standards and huge registration fees? I think the prices go up when you have limited access to trail races that are often, if not always, the result of permits that limit the number of participants. And I don't have a problem with that.

                 

                Is ultra-running a fad? I am sure it will probably level out at some point. But I think there will always be people out there who want to run beyond the traditional marathon distance. It is fun. But it is probably a fad for some folks and will pass.

                 

                Is it really necessary to charge hundreds of dollars for some races? (note – I really have no clue how much permits and liability insurance costs for these things) – example – JFK increased their reg. fee a few years back by a lot.  Over $200 to run 50 miles??? Maybe this is why they did not sell out this year?!? I wouldn't pay very much over 75 bucks for a 50 mile race. It is overpriced, but JFK is over rated.

                 

                Is finishing an ultra-race sexy? Is it a bragging right? I don't think there is anything sexy about what I do. Most of the people I hang around with aren't much on bragging; they just do what they do with no regard for what someone else thinks about it.

                 

                Can one say they are an ultra-runner when they did the “one and done” thing by finishing one ultra and then deciding it wasn’t for them (or getting injured and never running that distance again)? I guess you can say whatever you want, but lots of people probably do an ultra for a bucket list item. I don't necessarily consider that person an "ultra" runner. But I don't really look at myself like that, either. I just like to run trails, the longer I can be out there the better.

                 

                Is it better to have DNF’d in your first attempt at an ultra than to have never tried? I don't think you should go into a race thinking about the DNF, especially your first race. I have a DNF, and I felt terrible about it. I tried to downplay it, laugh it off... I was devastated. I was mainly devastated because my DNF was the result of my inability to do math in my head when I was hot, not a lack of training. I just did a poor job of managing my race, which is something I am pretty good at on most days.

                LB2

                wcrunner2


                Are we there, yet?

                  I don't know about too popular, but it says something about a race when it sells out in only its second year as I was just informed that Jackpot did. I hope we don't reach the point where you need to sign up for all your races months ahead of time. Sometimes it's nice to be more spontaneous.

                   2024 Races:

                        03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                        05/11 - D3 50K
                        05/25 - What the Duck 12-Hour

                        06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

                   

                   

                       

                  FSocks


                  KillJoyFuckStick

                    Why are ultra-marathons becoming (or have become) so popular? 3 words: aide station food or really good beer.

                     

                    Are ultra-marathons too popular? Not in my neck of the woods where only a couple races a year sell out (except for the lotteries)

                     

                    Too commercialized? If Disney starts an Ultra then I'm out.

                     

                    Is the result that too many people think they can run longer distances and then do not put in the proper training? Does this put a big strain on RDs to have contingency plans for the people that drop due to undertraining? Or to have rescue teams available? Virtually all Ultras are loop courses so I don't think it puts any additional strain on RDs.  But, yes, I've seen too many people jump to the ultra distance way too soon.  If you DNF 6/7 of your first ultras me thinks you jumped too quickly up in distance but .... I guess they think it's the "cool" thing to do.

                     

                    There are ultra-races popping up everywhere.  Is it an issue of more demand so folks are trying to increase the supply? Is it because some races are becoming untouchable to most “mortal” runners by the qualifying standards and huge registration fees?

                    Like someone once answered when asked why he robbed banks, "Because that's where the money is at."

                     

                    Is ultra-running a fad? For some, sure, for others, probably not.

                     

                    Is it really necessary to charge hundreds of dollars for some races? (note – I really have no clue how much permits and liability insurance costs for these things) – example – JFK increased their reg. fee a few years back by a lot.  Over $200 to run 50 miles??? Maybe this is why they did not sell out this year?!? See previously reply about where the money is at.  Count me out when the price gets above a C Note.  I'm a cheapazz.

                     

                    Is finishing an ultra-race sexy? Is it a bragging right? I think it's a little sexier than finishing a marathon for some.  If a slowish runner finishes a marathon in 5-6+ hours there's a stigma to it that they pretty much well walked the course.  But if the same slow runner finishes a 50K ultra in 10 hours the stigma is less due to varying factors like elevation change, terrain, etc.

                     

                    Can one say they are an ultra-runner when they did the “one and done” thing by finishing one ultra and then deciding it wasn’t for them (or getting injured and never running that distance again)? Meh, who cares.

                     

                    Is it better to have DNF’d in your first attempt at an ultra than to have never tried? No.  As someone who DNFd 2 marathons (#2 and 3) I definitely felt much worse by DNFing them than when I finished my first in a much slower time.  It's the primary reason I never ran my first 50K until I ran my 4th marathon and I considered it a "good marathon."

                    You people have issues 

                    Queen of Nothing


                    Sue

                      Ok I will weigh in to avoid work!

                       

                      Why are ultra-marathons becoming (or have become) so popular?

                      I think social media does it.  I'm a trail runner and was enjoying myself running trails and signing up for nice 18 mile runs, then I discovered RW trail running forum.  Beside talking trails the majority of these folks run ultras.  So I started to think I "needed" to run an Ultra.  Several 50Ks later and I am thinking I need to run a 50 miler, but then I wonder why I need to do this.

                       

                      Are ultra-marathons too popular? Too commercialized?

                      Not really but it is a bummer some races are lotteries so you need to decide now if you want to run a race in July. 

                       

                      Is the result that too many people think they can run longer distances and then do not put in the proper training? Does this put a big strain on RDs to have contingency plans for the people that drop due to undertraining? Or to have rescue teams available? No

                       

                      There are ultra-races popping up everywhere.  Is it an issue of more demand so folks are trying to increase the supply? Is it because some races are becoming untouchable to most “mortal” runners by the qualifying standards and huge registration fees? There's always been a lot of ultra around here.  Auburn, CA calls itself the endurance capital due to WS ending there.  So I think trail running and ultra has been popular around here for awhile.

                       

                      Is ultra-running a fad? For some yes.  For others no, just like anything else.

                       

                      Is it really necessary to charge hundreds of dollars for some races? (note – I really have no clue how much permits and liability insurance costs for these things) – example – JFK increased their reg. fee a few years back by a lot.  Over $200 to run 50 miles??? Maybe this is why they did not sell out this year?!?  Yea, I don't get some of the high prices.  I was going to sign up for a 50 miler in Tahoe and my price was over 160.00 so I didn't do it.  Now Mandy tells me about a race in WI, a 50 miler that only costs $60.00.  Big difference.

                       

                      Is finishing an ultra-race sexy? Is it a bragging right? Sexy, no not at all.  In fact it's kinda gross!  Nothing sexy about a stinky, dirty man lubing his balls.  Well unless he's sexy to begin with  .  If you like to brag this is a good thing to brag about.  It's something you set out to do and you accomplished it.

                       

                      Can one say they are an ultra-runner when they did the “one and done” thing by finishing one ultra and then deciding it wasn’t for them (or getting injured and never running that distance again)? I say no.  You can say I ran an ultra but you're an ultra runner, no.

                       

                      Is it better to have DNF’d in your first attempt at an ultra than to have never tried?  DNF teaches you a valuable lesson.  Especially your first ultra, how are you going to know what you are capable of and how well your training is.  If you get all excited and take off too fast, or trained all winter only to have a super hot day at the race.

                       05/13/23 Traverse City Trail Festival 25K

                       08/19/23  Marquette 50   dns 🙄

                       

                       

                       

                       

                       

                      MadisonMandy


                      Refurbished Hip

                        Nothing sexy about a stinky, dirty man lubing his balls.  Well unless he's sexy to begin with 

                         

                        Hahaha.  Do I need to tell Jason you're talking about him on the forums? 

                        Running is dumb.

                        Queen of Nothing


                        Sue

                           

                          Hahaha.  Do I need to tell Jason you're talking about him on the forums? 

                           

                          There is no reason to tell him...

                           05/13/23 Traverse City Trail Festival 25K

                           08/19/23  Marquette 50   dns 🙄