As requested by AT :

I'll occasionally carry a handgun when running; primarily when grouse season is open and I'm in the mountains, but occasionally for other reasons.  During the summer we'll sometimes get some transient "less than desirables" who will take advantage of free camping near our trail system here.  We've had a couple of occasions where some of our local runners have had some odd encounters with these transients.  I've recommended that any of our female runners who are running alone carry OC spray- this would likely end any unwanted encounter and it's effective on mountain lions which frequent our trails regularly.  Probably a good idea for anyone running alone in lion country.

I have to start out with a short preach:  Carrying a handgun is a huge responsibility and with that responsibility the first step is enrolling in a quality self defense course with certified instructors- they will cover safety, legal issues, tactics, amongst others and offer hands on range time.  The range time is usually limited and that means getting more (lots) range time on your own.

Obviously any handgun carried running is going to have to be small and light, that eliminates most right off the bat.  I have two that I like- the first one is a S&W 317 revolver- it's a eight shot .22 LR, w/ a  1 7/8" barrel and a very light alloy frame - 9 oz light!  Now a .22 LR isn't at the top of the heap for defense calibers, but I can shoot it all day long at 15 yards and in, double action and keep everything on a pie plate size target.  I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end that's for sure and usually a handgun pointed at a would be perpetrator's face is enough to convince him to move along.

But the real reason for this purchase was for grouse getting.  For those that don't know- our mountain grouse (ruffed, blue and spruce) are often found along trails and often aren't overly concerned with people hiking/running by and thus can sometimes be offed with such a short barreled weapon.

The other handgun I run with occasionally is not designed with grouse in mind.  It's a Glock 42, a relatively new model in Glock's lineup.  A seven shot (6+1) .380.  It looks, works, disassembles and shoots like any Glock- it's just on a very small frame.  It's pretty light (13 oz, 17 oz loaded), slim (<1")  and small (just under 6").  I really am fond of this little handgun and is what I carry off duty as it is so easy to conceal- even wearing shorts and a t-shirt.

Even more recently, Glock came out with a sister model the 43 which is chambered in 9mm, a yet better choice for self defense.  Specs are about the same.

I am certainly not advocating for everyone to start packing heat , but for those that have reason to- a quick and dirty review of a couple models that I think check off a lot of boxes.

OBMedic - have you run the Everglades 50K before. It's questionable whether I can get vacation at that time, but it's still a long shot possibility. BTW isn't the date the 20th?

Well first off I have to say I am appalled to read that you guys would ground swat the King of game birds, the noble Ruffed Grouse. Almost criminal in my eyes not to even mention ethics!  What's next? Best shotgun to use while shooting ducks swimming around on a farm pond? 

So while I always have a compact 9mm in my overnight bag I grabbed an old J frame Smith and it's holster before I left to come up here. DW asked what was up and I told here I wanted to experiment with carrying both handguns while running this weekend to come up with some plans moving forward. She just said "don't tell me you're turning into one of those paranoid right wing nut cases".  No dear, I'll always be a left wing wacko.

Running long yesterday with drained legs my usual 2 hour loop took much longer and it was totally dark by the time I finished. No headlamp with me but that was fine as I know these trails but as I was running thru wolf country I was thinking, hmmm, very dark, dark backdrop, dark predator, damn I like having that little laser sight on my LC9.  Personally I just like having a little more horsepower with a 9mm v .380. Still pretty compact.  The downside to the LC9 is a brutal trigger pull but with plenty of practice I am confident at close range in a moment of need everything will work out fine.  Should add that when I got back to my shack and let my dog out and walked around with her in the dark I could hear a pack of wolves howling across the lake sounding like they were on a friends property.

So my question is what kind of sights are you using for that type of scenario? At least for my area the only predator I am concerned with is a wolf and they go into hunt mode around dusk into dark.

NH- rarely ruffed grouse (but occasionally ), most often Blue or Spruce

sights- my duty guns have always had/have tritium sights- I like the ones where the front sight is a different color (ie green rear/orange front) or even just a lone tritium front sight

neither my off duty or j frame has tritium sights, but I always make sure I pack a light

don't have much experience with lasers, only what I've read- some love em, some hate em- I say if they work for you, then that's all you need to know- obviously one would want to practice with the laser extensively (and also not neglect practicing with the iron sights)

AT- yeah the little J frame is a little bulkier, but not terribly so- obviously ultra reliable and also lighter

if you're familiar with the Glock and like it- the small 42 or 43 are very good choices for a light, packable handgun

Old thread, new handgun

I ended up selling my Glock 42 some time ago- great handgun, I just was never 100% sold on the .380.  Enter the 43- basically identical to the 42, but chambered for the 9mm.  You might not be aware, but several large law enforcement agencies (including the FBI) have recently traded in their .40 calibers for 9mm's.  Basically newer bullet designs (and subsequent performance) have brought the smaller 9mm up to the performance level of the .40.  Bottom line, the 9mm is a very formidable caliber for self defense.

While I have the utmost confidence in my S&W j-frame revolver, it's simply a lot tougher to carried concealed than these small frame semi autos.

I never ended up putting tritium sights on my 42, I have tritium sights on the way for my 43.

You might not be aware, but several large law enforcement agencies (including the FBI) have recently traded in their .40 calibers for 9mm's.  Basically newer bullet designs (and subsequent performance) have brought the smaller 9mm up to the performance level of the .40. 

Interesting.  I was not aware of this, mostly because I haven't paid much attention for a while.  Might be due for an upgrade.   I'd be interested in your feedback on the weight and how it handles and what ammo spec you go with.

Speaking of ammo, it reminded me of my mentor and family friend growing up who taught me most of what I know about handling, shooting, and hunting.  As a kid, I spent countless hours with him at his private range (up to 300 yards) and on hunting trips.  He also taught me how to hand load.  Little did I know at that time that he was a legend...

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2010/8/18/in-memoriam-william-c-davis-jr/

Thought I'd move this follow up over here from the dailies so it doesn't get lost.

Warden - There were two public auctions here in the area. Both of them were older, long time collectors who decided that it was time to sell their collections.  So, like normal for auctions, the prices were all over the place. Some steals and some very high.  The 1895 looked in good shape to me and the action worked nice.  It went for $875. According to some online sources I looked at after the fact, it should have been closer to 1300-1500.  Before this auction I didn't really know about them. but now I'm interested in one. I'd really love to have one in 7.62X54 because they were actually sold to the Russians and used around WWI.  Prices on those seem to be closer to 5k.  The one that I was hoping to get was a model 1905 in .35 Winchester. It's basically a wall piece because the Ammo is no longer made so the only way to shoot it is to cut down .34-40 Krag cases. Online pricing shows that a top price for that should be $600.00 max, with most people suggesting 300-400. It went for around 900. No way i was going to pay that much for it.  DS wanted a lever action Rossi .410 that was there. According to him new price is around 500. This one went for  $575 and it only took shells up to 2 1/2".  I picked up the Paratrooper for $1500. Don't know if i should be    or . It seems like these things are difficult to price because most of them were rebuilt after the wars.

Bert-O - There were quite a few old levers at the one.  A lot of stuff dating back to just around 1900.  Some sold really well, some not so well. My wife's niece's husband collects those.   Right now I would like to get a new Henry in .41 Mag to go with my S&W 57 in the same caliber.  Think I might have spent my gun budget so that might be next years buy.   Ahh, the old 1903 Springfield.  I want one of those too. Oh wait, I have one .  It was my first deer rifle. The guy that sold it to me cut me a real good deal since I was 18 and it was my first rifle. He had put a new barrel on it. The stock is cut down and he had called it a carbine. Since they never really made a carbine in the 1903 I'm wondering if it was one of the "Bushmaster's" that were cut down for jungle training down in Panama and then someone further sporterized the forearm. Anyway, like he told me then it has no value as a old military item, just for shooting, which leads me to the next thing with it.  The serial number is just over 100k which according to some people puts it in the category of those that were not correctly heat treated and therefore may be unsafe to fire .   Think I'll just keep some light loads around in case I ever need to use it for something.   That must have been something having a mentor like Bill Davis.