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Heel Drop (Read 72 times)


Occasional Runner

    Lace-up, I know you hate Altra personally because you've met the people and run into the dbags all the time, but I think Altra will be fine. 

     

    Hoka seems to be doing fine and they reach a pretty small audience.

     

     

    I don't "hate" Altra at all. I also own plenty of gear that is either manufactured or marketed by assholes. I choose my running gear based on how effective it is for me, not by my personal feelings for those that are behind it.

     

    Additionally, I have shoes in my rotation that have a super low, or nonexistent heel drop and I actually wear them on occasion. I use a variety of shoes that position my feet differently because I think it helps to strengthen my feet by varying my footwear. However, I probably only use this style of shoe in about 10% of my running, so it'll be a LONG time before I'll need to buy another pair.

     

    My observation revolves around the notion that running in very low, or no heel drop is the most natural and appropriate way to run. And my most recent comment relates to how I feel about the folly of building an entire brand around that notion. I think it's very limiting at best.

     

    I see the Hoka comparison mute because I believe their company is established based on the niche market and it has been designed and sized in a way to service that somewhat limited market. Altra, on the other hand, has made a run to capture huge segments of the running shoe market. Much more far reaching than any attempt by Hoka. As a result, they've construced a much larger company and marketing machine than Hoka. I have a serious, and valid point regarding the sustainability of that endeavor. I think building your entire brand around a single concept is foolish at best. Especially when you consider how fickle the running shoe market is.


    under a rock

       

      I don't "hate" Altra at all. I also own plenty of gear that is either manufactured or marketed by assholes. I choose my running gear based on how effective it is for me, not by my personal feelings for those that are behind it.

       

      Well, based off other comments that you have made in other threads about Altra it comes across as some personal beef you have with them. Though you think their shoe is based off just the zero drop, I don't see it that way. I see a nice anatomical toe box that I really like and wish they could just get the rest of the design in proper order for it to work for me. They do emphasize the anatomical toe box a lot, maybe not as much as the zero drop, but they keep that out there. There are plenty of zero or lower drop shoes that I have passed on because of the narrow toe box.  I will always pick the wider toe box with a snug heel and midsole over a lower drop from heel to toe. I hope Altra can survive because I think the shoes have potential to be a great shoe.


      Occasional Runner

         

        Though you think their shoe is based off just the zero drop, I don't see it that way. 

         

        Are you aware of what their website address is? Here...

         

        altrazerodrop.com

         

        I would say that's pretty compelling evidence that the zero drop aspect is the central focus to the brand.

         

        My previous comments about the owners of Altra refer to a story when I was running with two of the owners and they had been talking shit about other peoples shoes all day. When they were running with me, I returned the favor and started to tell them why I think their shoes suck. That doesn't mean I hate Altra. I just enjoyed treating them like they had been treating us all day.

        mtwarden


        running under the BigSky

          with all the talk about personal preference to heel drop, stack height, midsoles, outsoles, toe box room- I wonder if it would be feasible for an outfit to offer "semi-custom" shoes?  Maybe something like a check the box deal?

           

           

          2023 goal 2023 miles  √

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          Messenjah


            This is probably my favorite lace quote of all time Big grin

             

             

            I don't "hate" Altra at all. I also own plenty of gear that is either manufactured or marketed by assholes.  


            Trail Monster

               

              Are you aware of what their website address is? Here...

               

              altrazerodrop.com

               

              I would say that's pretty compelling evidence that the zero drop aspect is the central focus to the brand.

               

              My previous comments about the owners of Altra refer to a story when I was running with two of the owners and they had been talking shit about other peoples shoes all day. When they were running with me, I returned the favor and started to tell them why I think their shoes suck. That doesn't mean I hate Altra. I just enjoyed treating them like they had been treating us all day.

               

              I don't know who you met but I have run and spent lots of social time with Golden, Jeremy, and Craig as well as some of their employees and never once have I heard them 'talk shit'. I have heard them discuss what they think is not working with a brand or model of shoe. I have heard them break down why they believe in their business model versus many others. But never, in my presence, have they been rude, hateful, or egomaniacal. And I would say their race results speak for themselves. Regular finishes in the top 10 at 100's, trail races, and Ironmans across the nation. Two Altra runners finished in the top 5 at a recent trail half. And a runner i met at Laurel 70.5 was in Lone Peaks. Im not sure of his overall place but he finished before dark and beat most of the relay teams so I'd say hes pretty damn good. I'd say their shoe model works great for a decent cross-section of the population.

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              Holden McGruyen


                 

                I don't know who you met but I have run and spent lots of social time with Golden, Jeremy, and Craig as well as some of their employees and never once have I heard them 'talk shit'. I have heard them discuss what they think is not working with a brand or model of shoe. I have heard them break down why they believe in their business model versus many others. But never, in my presence, have they been rude, hateful, or egomaniacal. And I would say their race results speak for themselves. Regular finishes in the top 10 at 100's, trail races, and Ironmans across the nation. Two Altra runners finished in the top 5 at a recent trail half. And a runner i met at Laurel 70.5 was in Lone Peaks. Im not sure of his overall place but he finished before dark and beat most of the relay teams so I'd say hes pretty damn good. I'd say their shoe model works great for a decent cross-section of the population.

                 

                You have to consider who is making the accusation of them being assholes. lace_up never seems to pass on an opportunity to be a jerk-off, so it's probably a pot-kettle-black thing.

                 

                Hoka has a small niche now but their product is becoming quite popular outside of the running world. People who stand or walk on concrete and other hard surfaces all day (think Home Depot employees, cashiers, etc.) are finding the shoe. If Hoka expands their product line to include casual styles like brown or black leather then they will absolutely go huge.

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                under a rock

                   

                  Are you aware of what their website address is? Here...

                   

                  altrazerodrop.com

                   

                   

                  Seeing as I have 4 pairs of Altra shoes, I am well aware of their web address. Fortunately, I'm also capable of navigating a website and reading. They do discuss the wide toe box aspect. Yes, the zero drop brings people in, but many people are even more interested in the toe box.  They clearly know that people want more than just zero drop. You're just the one that is so focused on that aspect of their shoe.

                  Birdwell


                    My take.

                    I think the whole drop thing is nothing more than a marketing ploy.

                     

                    For those who say "we were born to run barefoot" or "the natural foot is the best" I say, nope.

                    Tens of thousands of years ago, were men meant to run barefoot? Sure. Does it work well for indigenous people all over the world? yep.

                    however, for those who've descended from Western European stock, a society that's been wearing shoes for over a thousand years, I contend that your foot has developed to need shoes.

                     

                    your foor has grown and developed since you were born. If you've been wearing shoes for most of your life, your foot has developed in a different way, and you should probably stick to shoes.

                     

                    Anyway, that's my amateur opinion.

                     

                    Where whatever fits, and feels comfortable. If you like marketing, great. If zero drop has changed your life, congrats, you're awesome.

                    If it hasn't, your awesome too.

                    Brian Runner


                       

                      I think those TrailRoc 235 or 245 are at the top of my list right now...maybe even the 150's.  Any input?

                       

                       

                      I ran Hyner 25k in 245's. The main difference between the 235's and the 245's (other than the 3MM drop in the 245's) is the addition of a rock plate, which I find necessary for extra rocky long runs where fatigue makes me sloppy. With both models I pull the insole out and run sockless. I find them quite comfortable, and the uppers have a bit more structure than my previous shoe (NB110) making them feel less “sloppy,“ without being a hindrance, which I like.

                       

                       

                       

                      I've never run in the 150's.

                      Watoni


                         

                        You have to consider who is making the accusation of them being assholes. lace_up never seems to pass on an opportunity to be a jerk-off, so it's probably a pot-kettle-black thing.

                         

                        Hoka has a small niche now but their product is becoming quite popular outside of the running world. People who stand or walk on concrete and other hard surfaces all day (think Home Depot employees, cashiers, etc.) are finding the shoe. If Hoka expands their product line to include casual styles like brown or black leather then they will absolutely go huge.

                         

                        On the first paragraph, seriously? I always pass-up an opportunity to engage in ad hominem attacks on forum members, and so should you. Altra folks are more than capable of carrying their own water with Lace, I am sure.

                         

                        Hoka is a pretty sizable niche, and I certainly wish them well. The shoes do not work for me, unfortunately. Altra seems to be doing fine as well out here.

                         

                        Shoes are pretty commoditized, they are not snowflakes! Or, they are not Pegorettis.... Wink

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                        Occasional Runner

                           

                          You have to consider who is making the accusation of them being assholes. lace_up never seems to pass on an opportunity to be a jerk-off, so it's probably a pot-kettle-black thing.

                           

                          Hoka has a small niche now but their product is becoming quite popular outside of the running world. People who stand or walk on concrete and other hard surfaces all day (think Home Depot employees, cashiers, etc.) are finding the shoe. If Hoka expands their product line to include casual styles like brown or black leather then they will absolutely go huge.

                           

                          I find it interesting when somebody decides to take that route. I've never called anybody any names on this site. If you don't like my opinion, which is based on actual experience, then just suck it up. Seriously, there's no need to be like that.


                          Occasional Runner

                             

                            I don't know who you met but I have run and spent lots of social time with Golden, Jeremy, and Craig as well as some of their employees and never once have I heard them 'talk shit'. I have heard them discuss what they think is not working with a brand or model of shoe. I have heard them break down why they believe in their business model versus many others. But never, in my presence, have they been rude, hateful, or egomaniacal. And I would say their race results speak for themselves. Regular finishes in the top 10 at 100's, trail races, and Ironmans across the nation. Two Altra runners finished in the top 5 at a recent trail half. And a runner i met at Laurel 70.5 was in Lone Peaks. Im not sure of his overall place but he finished before dark and beat most of the relay teams so I'd say hes pretty damn good. I'd say their shoe model works great for a decent cross-section of the population.

                             

                            I disagree that decent race finishes will lead to the long term success of their company. I'm glad you enjoy their shoes and that they work for you though.


                            Occasional Runner

                               

                              On the first paragraph, seriously? I always pass-up an opportunity to engage in ad hominem attacks on forum members, and so should you. Altra folks are more than capable of carrying their own water with Lace, I am sure.

                               

                               

                              Open forums aren't for everybody.

                              Holden McGruyen


                                The truth hurts, donut?

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