Hi! I am just a few minutes old in this forum (and this site for that matter), so I hope I am at the right place, being an avid trail runner. Maybe also a small introduction is appropriate: I have been running for 10-15 years, and about 10 years ago I realized I love trail running. We have great trails where I live and I run all year long, even when it's sub zero F degrees and lots and lots of snow.
I love running, but I have really never been very good at it: I always run into problems with my calf muscles. Sometimes I have been running between 30-50 km/week (and some periods much less). Right now I am at around 20 km, but never more than 15 km in a single run, and that not without pain.
Usually it does not take more than a few hundred meters before my calves (probably soleus) get heavy and I can feel the lactic acid build up. If I stop it goes away. I can usually run even slower to reduce the effect. The same thing happens when I go in stairs, it takes maybe 10-20 steps and I get a similar feeling. When I run the soleus muscle feels overworked pretty fast. I have also been struggling with achilles tendon problems for long periods (last time lasted for 2-3 years...).
I think I have tried most things there are to try: big fat shoes, zero drop shoes, etc , orthotics, no shoes (five fingers), slow running, fast running, specific weight training, physiotherapists etc etc.
Do you have any spontaneous ideas about this? Compartment? Magnusium deficiency (I tried popping pills for a week, did not work)?
Faster Than Your Couch!
Hi, and welcome!
What comes to my mind is that it could be the side effect of certain medications - are you taking e.g. cholesterol medication, or diabetes drugs?
What about stretching several times during the run, does that help a bit? Applying cold or heat before the run?
What does your daytime activity look like?
And, do you notice that same effect when you work out e.g. your arms, or is it just the calves?
Run for fun.
under a rock
Have you had any ART or Graston done on it? I had a soleus strain in 2011 and that was the trick that finally helped. Gotta keep that scar tissue from getting tight.
I had Graston done on my Achilleses. It was painful but I think it helped. I actually replicate the experience almost daily with a block of ice instead of a steel edge.
3/8 Way Too Cool 50k WNS
4/19 Tehama Wildflowers 50k
FTYC: Nope, no medications at all.
It's just the calves (I think...). I used to stretch during the run, it only helps a bit and just temporarily (just like just stop running does).
Daytime activity is sitting by the desk. I recently got a desk that I can raise to stand by, I haven't been able yet to figure out if it helps standing a lot or not. It is not ruled out yet.
Applying cold or heat before/after run I have not yet tried.
Fraggle: Nope, I have not tried Graston or ART.
Many chiropractors can do Graston and ART as well. It can be painful to have done but it does a wonderful job of breaking up scar tissue. After the second time my soleus strained my chiro started doing a combination of both on a weekly basis. I was able to start running low miles after a week of treatment. As my running started to feel better we started increasing the time between sessions. I now use the stick on my legs after my runs and do a little deeper hand massaging if I'm feeling anything in the area.
I've heard other people's stories about the frustration of a calf or soleus strain that heals then re-strains soon after getting their mileage back. Most who have used ART or Graston have had great results. My ortho was the one who recommended manual manipulation of the scar tissue to break it up.
When my soleus strained the first time I took 6 weeks off then went back tor running. I managed to run for almost two months before it strained again. The second time didn't feel as severe but it took so much longer to feel better. It hurt to walk for months. Taking my son to the park to play was a frustrating experience. Anytime it felt better and I tried to go for a short walk I'd end up regretting it. After 3 months of frustration I finally went back to my ortho who got me on the right track. The ortho I saw for the first time it was injured wasn't my regular one because my guy is so hard to get an appt with so I took the first avail doc in the practice. I will never do that again. I will always wait for my guy to have a slot open from now on.
Very interesting.
So, is it still reasonable that my problems is due to strains, even if I don't experience much problems when just walking down the road? I need to start running (slowly, but still) before ache starts.
running under the BigSky
I've struggled with calve issues (and not surprisingly achilles problems- I think they often go hand in hand). I tried a lot of different things, but rolling (myofascial) regularly- pre and post run, has helped more than anything. It's generally not a pain free endeavor putting as much weight as possible on your calf and rolling it thoroughly, but when done it does feel better.
Some folks swear by calf sleeves, I've found them to be helpful post run, but not so much during a run- but if you haven't tried them it be worth a shot
2023 goal 2023 miles √
2022 goal- 2022 miles √
2021 goal- 2021 miles √
What kind of tool are you using for the rolling?
it's the Grid foam roller- it's pretty firm (it looks like thick pvc pipe w/ a layer of dense foam around it)- there are literally dozens and dozens of rollers on the market and there could certainly be better ones, but the Grid is nice as I can also use it for quads/hams, etc
You could also use The Stick, which is what I use instead of the roller. Either way the goal is to loosen up any scar tissue that is forming. Every time you run and work out you are creating micro tears in soft tissue. The idea is that manual manipulation or myofascial release will keep the repair phase of these micro tears from tightening up the muscles, tendons, and ligaments as well as breaking up scar tissue that is too tight.
Presumably, the physios had you do eccentric calf exercises, both bent knee and straight?
I had a severe medial gastroc tear about 10 years ago. Part of the muscle detached from the tendon and balled up. You still can tell by looking at it that it got F***ed up. A couple years after that happened, I had a soleus strain in the same leg. It got really tight due to compensating for the now weaker gastroc group. It took much longer for me to be able to run on it than the original gastroc tear. Soleus injuries are difficult and frustrating. During the recovery, I did a lot of things: elliptical cross-trainer instead of running, yoga, deep tissue massage, Traumeel, and lots of different stretching/exercises, but no running for two months and a very gradual return. It is important to stretch/exercise just shy of inducing pain. But nevertheless, 6 months after that soleus injury, I did a 100 miler.
Some of the things that I do now to keep it happy: eccentric calf exercises, staying barefoot when at home (all day since I telecommute), a warmup that includes a brisk 1km walk and then stretching. I have also been experimenting with doing the warmup walk barefoot on the TM at increasing gradient.
Zero drop/VFFs may help in the longer term IF you can wear them while doing just normal daily life. Definitely, do NOT run in them until you get your problem sorted out.
Sounds like some sort of self massage of the calves is what I should try next. I will have to get a foam roller, or equivalent.
Yes, correct. I also walk around with just socks most of the day (tiny office). I do sitting calf raises 3 times a week at the gym.
But nevertheless, 6 months after that soleus injury, I did a 100 miler.
Wow, that's amazing progress! And the kind of stuff I dream of doing some day.
Thanks everyone for your help! Much appreciated!
Usually it does not take more than a few hundred meters before my calves (probably soleus) get heavy and I can feel the lactic acid build up. If I stop it goes away. I can usually run even slower to reduce the effect. The same thing happens when I go in stairs, it takes maybe 10-20 steps and I get a similar feeling. When I run the soleus muscle feels overworked pretty fast. I have also been struggling with achilles tendon problems for long periods (last time lasted for 2-3 years...). I
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Since you describe it as a heavy feeling, like a build up of lactic acid, I'm wondering if you may have a vascular issue. If the blood flow to the area is inadequate that could lead to the feeling you describe. Theroeticlly it could also lead to tendon problems as well since they could possibly be weak and slow to heal.
Do you have strong pulses in your feet or are pulses difficult to find? Do you ever have swelling in the feet or ankle area? What about problems with cold feet or even very hot feet? I know the condition of your toe nails could indicate a lack of adequate blood flow but without looking it up I'm not exactly sure of how they change, other then possibly being brittle. Just another angle to consider.
I find it interesting that you would have the problem in both legs. Is it always present on both sides and equally as bad? I tend to get tendonitis but I never get it on both sides of the body at the same time. That makes we question if it is just injuries, or if there is a more insidious problem here.
Hard to tell, I don't know. But I don't have problems with swollen ankles/feet or brittle toe nails. But I do were extra socks indoors pretty often, but other people at the same office or in the same apartment do too, so I guess that's more about cold floor.
It is usually worse on either side, it tends to switch side now and then. I guess that is what you could expect if you compensate by using different muscles more or less.
About the scar tissue theory: Isn't it supposed to hurt as hell when I massage the muscles if I got scar tissues? (It doesn't.)