Trailer Trash

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New and question about running technical trails (Read 310 times)

    Hi everyone,

     

    I'm pretty new to running in general. I've only been running with any kind of consistency for the last year, after discovering that you can run on trails.  I was in good shape when I started running so I have been struggling with the fact that my heart and legs are quite willing to continue after my joints and tendons are telling me I'm done.

     

    I don't run on roads at all. Well, except for 5k's I kind of enjoy a hilly 5k in a masochistic kind of way. But generally I don't like roads, they hurt and I feel awkward.  I don't know if I just haven't found the right shoes or if my gait is different or what. Fortunately I have a 1+ mile, and a 9ish mile mountain bike trail minutes from my house. So all my during the week runs are there. The trails are single track but pretty much all non technical.  On the weekends I head out to Mt Cheaha for my long run. And therein lies my difficulty.

     

    The trail I was on yesterday was up to 6in of leaf litter covering cantaloupe to watermelon sized rocks for a good portion of the first three miles. I was averaging 22 min miles and doing a lot of slipping and sliding. It was also pretty steep in sections (about 1000ft elevation change in that section according to garmin connect). And it was way more tiring than I expected. After that the trail was awesome, the views were incredible and I was actually able to run a fair bit but about 8 miles in part of my glute (or something in that general region) was sort of cramping and seriously painful anytime I stepped on anything unstable). I ended up bailing onto a gravel road to get back to the car. I am not sore anywhere today and feel totally recovered from what ended up being a 3:45 12 mile pseudo-run lol (total elevation change 3500ft). (Note to self: need to remember to carry more calories... fortunately I had some as I wanted to try some stuff out)

     

    My thoughts are that all the walking and craziness of the first section used muscles that I don't generally use and they rebelled. Oddly I was able to run on the gravel road pain free. And by the time I got back to the car I felt fine.  So my question is how do I move forward from here? Do I need to do more walking on really technical stuff? Are there any particularly relevant leg exercises I should be doing? Will running on somewhat less technical trails  be specific enough to help?

     

    My main goal is to increase my endurance because I love running trails and always wish I could go farther. I also signed up for the Cheaha 50k in February.  I had been fairly confident I could finish before seeing this particular section of the course. Any advice on how to proceed would be welcome.

     

    Other tidbits about myself for anyone interested: 150lbs very slow 36yo female, my 5k pr is just under 24 minutes (raced with no speedwork... just easy running on trails and some crossfit) so there is a little speed there that I hope to be able to access eventually on trails.

    Pinhoti 100: Finished :D

    LB2


      I am quite familiar with the absolute beat down that particular trail can give you. My suggestion would be to continue running sections from Porter's Gap to Mt. Cheaha as often as you can. Specificity of training is important. I underestimated its importance going into Pinhoti. But, the trail and the heat brought my understanding of the concept to a much more profound level. I want to do the Cheaha 50k one day. My schedule won't allow it in 2013, though. 

       

      I think you need to just continue getting out there and running it as often as you can. Assuming you have a 50k training plan you are following, I think doing those long runs on the actual course is the best thing you can do.

      LB2

      mtwarden


      running under the BigSky

        no expert, so take everything w/ a grain of salt Smile  technical trails (especially those w/ lots of elevation change) are just slower- no way around that.

         

        if your not getting injured I'd encourage you to continue to run them, time on your feet is an important aspect of endurance training; sounds like your other trails you run will let you work on other aspects of training and building your base

         

        I'm not familiar with race you're looking at, but the very best training is actually getting on that course- or something that is very close-specificity

         

        personally I enjoy technical trails, it's not the only trails I run, but I do enjoy them when I do Big grin

         

         

        2023 goal 2023 miles  √

        2022 goal- 2022 miles √

        2021 goal- 2021 miles √

         

        FTYC


        Faster Than Your Couch!

          Agree with the previous posters. I do a lot of technical trails, and they are just  s l o w. I have a section of the Midstate Trail in Pennsylvania that I love-hate, and it seems to be similar to what you describe, with those melon-sized rocks, all overgrown, and the only time to actually run certain sections of it is when they are covered with a foot of snow.

           

          Keep doing those difficult sections of the course, but don't exclusively do that. You'll get fed up with the rocks and the technicality, and that can be demotivating. Alternate with easier, faster trails - you can do some "speedwork" there, and this will also improve your confidence.

           

          No shame in bailing out at the right time. Better to bail out than to end up with an injury that might take months to heal up.

           

          Oh, and: Welcome! Smile

          Run for fun.


          Uh oh... now what?

            Hmmm, cantaloupes and watermelons?  I thought I had that copyrighted.

            lll

            Getting to this section I was running 9:30 - 11:00, going through this

            section I drop to about 27s and and really happy to be done with it.

             

            There is a 50k back in Arkansas that I managed to reset my slowest

            ever time by well over an hour, maybe closer to and hour and a half

            slower than I ever thought I could run... stupid rocks.

             

            Just keep working on it.  Just as it seems it is getting better, it will rain

            or snow or a porcupine will come running right at you.

             

            rgot


            Trail Dog

              Cheaha is a great race - I ran it last year. Blue Hell is.... fun. Evil

               

              With technical trails, practice makes perfect. Personally I find that running several days per week on less technical trail and/or road helps rest the legs a bit from the less stable surface. You asked about specific exercises/stretches - I really like ankle rolls (circles and flex/point) and balancing on one foot while brushing my teeth, brushing my hair, standing in a queue, etc.

                Thanks for all the comments.

                 

                LB2: I have run the course from Adams Gap to Blue Hell and was a little surprised at how much rockier it got once the course hit the pinhoti. I cant imagine trying to complete the 100. Training plan?? I have seen some. But can't really say I am following any plan other that try to run as much as possible and not get hurt.

                 

                mtwarden: I definitely agree that running technical trails is fun! As long as I get to define technical as technical for me Big grin

                 

                FTYC: fortunately/ unfortunately(?) I can't imagine Mt Cheaha being covered in a foot of snow. I think that might shut down the entire state of Alabama!

                 

                Johm M: Those pics remind me of summers at the beach.  Are those barnacles I am seeing on those rocks? I still have some scars from being sliced up by barnacles as a kid running around on rocky beaches.  I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for aggressive porcupines. That could seriously ruin my day.

                RoxieRuns: blue hell is definitely fun and should be especially so at the end of the race!

                 

                I think I am going to plan on hitting the sections I know I can run (Adams gap to Lake Cheaha) and the sections I find more challenging (Porters Gap to Adams Gap) on alternating weekends. Hopefully I will see some improvement in my rock hoping abilities while still being able to get in some good long runs.

                Pinhoti 100: Finished :D


                Uh oh... now what?

                  There is a variety of shell-life critters along the beaches here.  I

                  am on Whidbey Island in Washington State.  We have clams,

                  oysters, mussels, and great big black and whites things (orcas).

                   

                  Do keep in mind that the watch is not the only judge of a good run.

                   

                  And then comes speed work (speedwork, speed-work, whatever) -- 

                  A little speed work helps you with leg turnover.  Faster leg turnover

                  helps with agility (quicker foot placement).  Agility on the trails

                  leads to confidence.  Confidence leads to ... porcupine encounters.

                   

                  rgot

                  Gumby66


                    The key to technical trails is being light on your feet (agility). It is hard to explain but think of it as to not committing to any one footfall. If your foot comes down funky then you quickly place your other foot so you don't have to wrench your first foot. Also part of agility, taking shorter strides and bringing your feet up more than you would on a groomed trail, good for avoiding taking a dive. Final general advice, learn to tuck and roll when you fall. Falling forward is a good way to break your wrists not to mention other sensitive bits on your frontside.

                    TrailProf


                    Le professeur de trail

                      On the real technical stuff, you could practice a faster hike rather than thinking you should be running.  In longer races, that is what most of us do anyway.  The great thing about trails is it will change just as you hit a nice stretch after the cantelopes and watermelons.  Not sure I would want to do a race or run that was all that stuff. 

                       

                      Good luck.

                      My favorite day of the week is RUNday

                       

                       

                        The constantly changing conditions are one my favorite things about running trails. And probably has something to do with I don't like roads.

                         

                        Before I registered for the Cheaha 50k I payed little attention to speed. Committing to a race has given me the motivation to get out the door some days but has also made me more aware of pace. I am a little concerned about the cutoff times. Fortunately I am a really laid back kind of person so I'd say I am more interested in whether I am fast enough than stressed about it.

                         

                        Does running downhill count as speed work? I have a nice 3 mileish mostly downhill section of trail that I like to fly down. It certainly makes me feel like I am awesomely agile!

                         

                        I get the not committing to any one footfall, and I assume the tuck and roll would be really useful when the other foot also lands on something unstable! I have only had one significant fall and I failed to tuck and roll. Instead I lightly sprained my ankle, and took a good bit of skin off my knee, lower leg, and forearm as I skidded down the trail. The knee was deep enough that it was still an open wound 3 weeks later. Stupid invisible rocks. I did manage to impress a group of boy scouts out on backpacking trip with the amount of blood covering my leg.

                        Pinhoti 100: Finished :D

                        mtwarden


                        running under the BigSky

                           

                          Does running downhill count as speed work? 

                           

                          certainly if you're speeding Big grin

                           

                          I do think that a lot of folks discount steep downhill work, it can often be as hard (or even worse) than uphill- the Grand Canyon will teach you that in spades Smile

                           

                           

                          2023 goal 2023 miles  √

                          2022 goal- 2022 miles √

                          2021 goal- 2021 miles √

                           

                          LB2


                            I think breaking it up into sections like Adam's to Cheaha and Porter's to Adam's is a great way to do it. In my limited experience running in long races, I have learned a couple of things:

                             

                            1. Specificity of training is important.

                            2. Actually being intimately familiar with the course is a very good thing.

                             

                            You have both of those things covered.

                             

                            I know it is stating the obvious, but if you have run those sections a few times, it should be pretty easy to figure out about how long it will take you to run the whole thing during a race. I , know that will be a fun race to do. I wish it would fit into my schedule this February, but it is not possible.

                            LB2

                              I haven't quite run the whole first half of the course yet but it looks like I may be flirting with the cuts off at the halfway point. Of course the race isn't until February so I have some time increase my technical skills and experiment with pacing strategies. This should increase my average speed even if I dont gain much actual speediness as I increase my mileage.

                              Pinhoti 100: Finished :D

                              LB2


                                I haven't quite run the whole first half of the course yet but it looks like I may be flirting with the cuts off at the halfway point. Of course the race isn't until February so I have some time increase my technical skills and experiment with pacing strategies. This should increase my average speed even if I dont gain much actual speediness as I increase my mileage.

                                 

                                 

                                I agree.

                                LB2

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