RunningAHEAD - Topic: Mixing it up

JoeOs

posted: 8/31/2006 at 10:12 AM
modified: 8/31/2006 at 10:13 AM

I try and run at the top end of 70-80% HR range, that is about 150, but as usual I go over often, and noticed that around 155 my HR will jump to about 162. It is like there is no 156, 158, 159 etc. I also find that this is the range where my gait, stride, seems the most natural, and I enjoy it more. I have no idea how long I could sustain it though. I would like to run some in this range, then back down for a while, then back up for a time etc. while doing my normal running. However, as usual, there are as many opinions as there are people out there, from experts, and novices alike. What say you guys? What do you do? Would it hurt to take one run a week and mix it up? Good idea? Bad Idea? Do it on a short run, long run? Wait untill I get longer runs and do it on middle distant runs? Joe

Age is not an illusion

joe_h

The voice of mile 18

posted: 8/31/2006 at 11:35 AM

where you get your #'s from? was the age formula or field tests? the field test are more accurate and need to be updated as porgress w/ training. always read about "gray" zones too fast for aerobic and too slow for speedwork. gotta make sure your # is just right for the workout type you want.

Tri Rule #1 of Triathlon Training/Racing - If Momma ain't happy nobody is happy

JoeOs

posted: 8/31/2006 at 12:11 PM

My morning resting heart rate is 50bpm, and my max heart rate from running some intervals on the Treadmill in the middle of a long run, was 176. Those are the numbers that I plug in. Joe

Age is not an illusion

Intherunning

posted: 8/31/2006 at 12:40 PM
modified: 8/31/2006 at 8:58 PM

I've just used the old formula rather than a field test. I figure as I am not an elite runner, exacting measures to that degree aren't necessary. A couple of years ago I did actually find my max HR and I thought I would die! From now on I just use the formulas with absolutely no complaint. Been posted before, but here are the accepted methods for figuring your Max HR. Formula #1: The first formula involves simply subtracting your age from the number 220 (for men) or from 226 (for women). This method is preferred for beginning runners, those who have been leading a sedentary lifestyle. MarathonGuide.com Simple Heart Zones Calculator Formula #2: The second formula is very similar, but is preferable for those who are already quite active. For this formula, simply subtract half of your age from the number 205. Formula #3: The third formula runs along the same vein as the two preceding it. For men, subtract 80% of your age from the number 214. For women, subtract 70% of your age from the number 209. All of these formulas provide approximations that are based on the standard curves representing the "normal" MHR's for any given age, and they get you close to your own MHR, but not close enough. The numbers you will get when you plug in your own age would best be used as a guide, as opposed to an accurate measure. Find Your Maximum Heart Rate

Discipline is never an end in itself, only a means to an end. (RF)

JoeOs

posted: 8/31/2006 at 1:07 PM

If you look at it, it don't make a hill of beans differance anyway the % of max slip a point or two one way or the other. It is the resting HR that makes the biggest differance. It is intersting to note, that I have read that formula # 2 is the the most accurate formula for those over 50, and as it turns out that makes my Max HR 176, exactly what I was able to reach on the Treadmill. But, no opinions on mixing it up?

Age is not an illusion

Intherunning

posted: 8/31/2006 at 1:12 PM
modified: 8/31/2006 at 1:15 PM

Joe, Sorry for missing the questions which was the point of your original post. Personally I think mixing it up is part of good training. If a person runs just one pace all the time there is no advancement in speed. Fartlekking, tempo work, etc etc are all variations on the same theme--vary the pace and in the process, push yourself, especially into the anaerobic range once in a while. John

Discipline is never an end in itself, only a means to an end. (RF)

joe_h

The voice of mile 18

posted: 8/31/2006 at 1:30 PM

I agree w/ ITR mixing it up is good. just wanted to make sure you're using the HRM right. fartlek are a great introduction to speedwork. what are you training for?

Tri Rule #1 of Triathlon Training/Racing - If Momma ain't happy nobody is happy

JoeOs

posted: 8/31/2006 at 2:25 PM

John Well I understand Fartlekking, but I have a problem with Tempo, I am not sure I understand what that is. Something about race pace, and that I do know what that is, as I do not race. Joe I would like to run a marathon probably the White Rock, here in the Dallas area, that would be in Dec of 2007, so better than a year from now. But in the mean time I want to have some fun at this, and see what I can do without killing myself in the process. I just know that I want a faster pace at a more natural stride then what 70-80% of max allows right now. Allthough my pace has improved rapidly since I have moved my running outdoors, so in a few weeks it might not matter. Joe

Age is not an illusion

Intherunning

posted: 8/31/2006 at 3:55 PM
modified: 9/1/2006 at 7:46 AM

Joe, Here is Hal Higdon's definition of a tempo run from page 83 of his book, "Marathon, The Ultimate Training Guide" which I've read twice and recommend to anyone (for beginnings and advanced alike). "Exercise scientists now tell us that doing tempo runs is the most efficient way to raise your lactate threshold, that is, your ability to run at a fast pace without accumulating lactic acid in the bloodstream...you train at the theoretical point between aerobic and anaerobic running. A tempo run is one in which you begin at an easy jogging pace, gradually accelerate to near your 10K pace, hold that pace for a period of time, then gradually decelerate to your earlier jogging pace, A 40 minute tempo run might look like this: jog 10 min, accelerate for 10 min, hold 10K pace for 10 min, then decelerate for 10 min." He admits these numbers are rather arbitrary as you can design any length run you want for a tempo run. As far as finding your race pace, you may have to do some guesswork there or practice with your own charted 6 milers. Find the pace that pushes it to the edge but at the same time will allow you to keep a consistent pace throughout the run. If this will be your first marathon I would suggest doing some reading on marathon training, especially for your first. This book is excellent. I've done several 20K's a half marathon, and an 18 mile fun run but not a marathon. Toyed with the idea several times but would always run out of training time. In fact I'm doing an uncertified half on Saturday and again I am toying with the idea of a marathon in November. I know it will meet with the same fate as the others. John

Discipline is never an end in itself, only a means to an end. (RF)

Forrest

posted: 8/31/2006 at 5:54 PM
modified: 8/31/2006 at 6:10 PM

Joe Sounds like you want to basically do some speedwork. It may be a bit early in your training but running the occational fartlek might be helpful if you feel up to it.(keep them fairly short)Personally I think distance goals might be more important at this stage especially if you have a marathon in mind. Most runners gosl is to complete their first marathon. If you try a Half Marathon you can estimate your projected time by multiplying by 2 and add 10 to 20 minutes for a fairly accurate marathon time assuming you continue to follow a marathon training schedule. Whatever you do it would be advisable to take the day after a speedwork day off for your muscles to recover and strengthen and to prevent injuries. If you are determined to increase your speed and don't like fartleks or Tempo running then hill repeats will definately build speed. I personally preferred them to track work. Hill work builds leg strength very quickly and really come in handy if you do a hilly marathon.(most are) I found I would pass more people on hills in races than anywhere else on the course. Good luck Dave

WHO FARTLEK"D ?

JoeOs

posted: 9/1/2006 at 1:42 AM

Basicaly what I have going is to add 1 mile a week for three weeks then back off for a week and add 1 mile a week for three weeks etc. and each of those 4 week sets will see a mile added to the long run. This week is a rest week all 3 milers, next week is a return to the 5 mile run, with a total of 17 miles, week later 6 mile run total of 18 miles, another 6 miler total of 19 miles, then a rest week again. Some weeks I'll run 5 days and some 4 days, on the weeks I run 4 days I would like to do a change up on one of those days. Maybe start with a three mile run and pick up the pace after each mile, or play with the last mile, go flat out then back off, then go again, then back off. Test things, see what I can do, what I can get away with, and still have a quality run. I am not sure that it is speed I am looking for at this point, but I want more work, more effort another way to measure progress. I'll figure something out, and see how it goes

Age is not an illusion

Forrest

posted: 9/1/2006 at 6:20 AM
modified: 9/1/2006 at 6:23 AM

Joe You probably could add a little more than 1 mile each week. The rule of thumb is 10% per week and backing off one week is good. As your milage increases as it has 10% would be a little more than 1 mile. That may give you the harder workout you are seeking without speeding up too much and risking injury. Dave PS: There are some interesting new posts in the general forum for you HRM lovers that may answer some of your questions and explaining how your resting HR plays into the formula.

WHO FARTLEK"D ?

joe_h

The voice of mile 18

posted: 9/1/2006 at 7:28 AM

Hill Repeats!! OH YEAH!! great workout and frigging great for mental toughness if you want to check out some marathon training plans check halhigdon.com he's got a couple I was/will be following his novice plan and someone passed on this calculator for tempo workouts/ect: http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/rununiv/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm

Tri Rule #1 of Triathlon Training/Racing - If Momma ain't happy nobody is happy

Intherunning

posted: 9/1/2006 at 8:00 AM
modified: 9/1/2006 at 8:00 AM

Joe, Here is a technical tip for you. When you enter a web site into your post, highlight it and then go to the formatting options at the top of the screen and click on the link (second from right). This will create a clickable link that will take us directly to the web site. Try modifying it and see if it works. I put the site in the pertinent links thread. John

Discipline is never an end in itself, only a means to an end. (RF)

JoeOs

posted: 9/1/2006 at 2:19 PM

Thanks Guys. I looked at a number of plans before I started this and this is the plan that I am using: http://www.marathontraining.com/marathon/m_mile.html I think this is a reasonable approach, and it has a phase two. Today after my3 miler I played Racquate Ball with my son in law. Talk about using fast twich muscles. I know sports of this kind are not recomended. I allways go against the grain.

Age is not an illusion

Diabetic Runners

Mixing it up (Read 369 times)