Sub-4 Marathon Group

December Donuts (Read 563 times)

Dreamn


    This is the Ryan Hall plan from RWOL, I've seen other variations though

    http://web.archive.org/web/20100724182349/http://www.runnersworld.com/charts/hallchart.html .

     

    I would think you could just follow Pfitz's marathon plans and just reduce the long runs instead of buying another book.  At least, that's what I was thinking. 

    bagopux


      This is the Ryan Hall plan from RWOL, I've seen other variations though

      http://web.archive.org/web/20100724182349/http://www.runnersworld.com/charts/hallchart.html .

       

      I would think you could just follow Pfitz's marathon plans and just reduce the long runs instead of buying another book.  At least, that's what I was thinking. 

       

      Thanks for the link.  Again, no macrocycles there either.

       

      I think if you do Pfitz marathon plan and reduce the long runs that gives you the opportunity to do more pace work.  That's the tradeoff that I'm looking for.  I think I'll soak up all these plans and see if I can work up something of my own based on what I've seen..


      Canuck

        bago - Another half marathon plan I like is from Brad Hudson's book Run Faster.  He has three different levels depending on the mileage you'd like to run. 

        PRs: 47:54 (10K); 1:46:36 (HM); 3:50:52 (FM)

        Recovering from injured knee (PCL/Lateral Meniscus)

        bagopux


          bago - Another half marathon plan I like is from Brad Hudson's book Run Faster.  He has three different levels depending on the mileage you'd like to run. 

           

          Hmm, from the few pages I scanned and the reader comments that one looks very interesting.  Thanks!


          Canuck

            It's a good book, I'd definitely recommend adding it to your collection. As a bonus he has three levels of 5K, 10K, HM and FM plans in there as well that you can look at - although his main point in the book is that you should build your own plan based on certain key principles.  It's available for the Kindle or Kindle app on iPhone/iPad as well.

            PRs: 47:54 (10K); 1:46:36 (HM); 3:50:52 (FM)

            Recovering from injured knee (PCL/Lateral Meniscus)


            Rusk Runner

              I will second the rec on Hudson's Run Faster.

              PRs...5K - 20:36, 4mile - 26:15, 13.1 - 1:32, 26.2 - 3:42

              Just Run!!!


              Bad Ass

                As a suggestion, maybe we should open a thread with links to include the plans and other important links as we discussed and sticky the thread so it remains on top.  For example, that Ryan Hall link might be a good one to include.  That way, we can include links to articles, etc., that we've discussed in the past and use the sticky as a reference point.

                 

                Other than that, I'm tired. Just thought you would like to know. Big grin

                Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

                Next:  San Francisco Marathon

                Blog

                "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."


                Smashy!!!

                  Hey all,

                  Got in 6 w/ 3 tempo miles @ 8:21. It was supposed to be 4 tempo, but I miscounted, and when I got home, I realized I only ran 5 total, so I had to keep jogging around the neighborhood like a shmoe. Good new is: no ITBS! So, I think we have a winner: tight butt and hips. So, I'm gonna keep up the stretching and strength work, and I think I'm gonna be okay.

                   

                  Akalei, thanks for those exercises! Do you have any for hip flexors?

                   

                  Re: yoga, Ami, Akalei, or anyone, can you give me the name of some basic yoga poses that will help me stretch my hip flexors and butt? I remember someone (Zoe maybe) suggesting a pose, but now I can't remember it, or find it.

                   

                  Re: Pfitz, I realize that I'm in the minority, but when I look at his plans, I just don't get the logic. Sprinkles, when you say it has too much variety, that is what I mean by "purposeless." The first Mesocycle is Endurance, and it has 3 LT runs, and the second Mesocycle is LT, and it ALSO has 3 LT runs. Then what makes it an LT focused Mesocycle? Then he has you do MP runs 2X in MC1, and 1X in MC2--why? Especially since he doesn't think you get any physiological benefits from running at GMP. Is it to memorize your GMP? Then will 3 MP runs cut it? And then in WK7 he has you do this insane 7 mile tempo run (11 total) on top of 55 mpw--wow. If you surive that week without injury, you might be on the verge of overtrained, and go into your last MC not just with dead legs but legs that are beyond repair.

                   

                  Re: Higdon, I, for one, think his plans have a lot of purpose. Most people going to his plans are novices or novice+, and what they lack is endurance. His plans aim at building the endurance of the runner at that level. I agree with Indi that loading the weekends with 50%+ of the total weekly miles is dangerous. But the Intermediate plans are less drastic.

                   

                  Re: Hansons, I see a huge difference between the Hansons plan and Pfitz. You can see that difference just eyeballing the plans. Hansons has your running at GMP every week--because they think it is important to memorize your GP, but also because they believe you gain oxygen efficiency, which will make running at that pace easier on raceday. They have you doing quality every week, but they don't try to kill you with any one workout or any one week. Rather they try to induce cumulative fatigue over the entire 18 weeks. I also like their LR. Rather than have you do a long sluggish run that has you go over 3 hrs of running thereby risking injury, they have you run shorter LRs but at a healthy pace, so that it feels more like a long workout.

                   

                  Disclaimer: All the opinions above are coming from a guy who has run exactly 1 marathon, and bombed it. So take it with a grain of salt the size of Kansas.

                   

                  Pux, the Hansons (and no I do not receive a residual every time I mention their name) has a Half-plan. The plan can be found online. But for the paces, you need to refer to the book. If you are interested, let me know what GP is, and I can give you the training paces. The specific workouts are also in the book, but not in the plan.

                   

                  Docket, I like the idea of the Link Sticky. So make one! 

                  PRs: 21:35 (5K); 1:46:46 (HM); 4:30:46 (FM)


                  Smashy!!!

                    Oh yeah, re: race photos or photos in general, I always look good...Cool (I have to say, the emoticon selection is sparse here.)

                    PRs: 21:35 (5K); 1:46:46 (HM); 4:30:46 (FM)

                      good afternoon donuts. nothing to report here. Plan on Higdon next go around. Am I the only Houstonian here?

                      PR's : HM 1:51:15  -  5K 21:27

                       

                       

                      akalei


                        Cbus: the Theraband walk will definitely help your hip flexors.  I have a 3-pack of varying strengths/resistances (is that a word?) that I got at Target for like $12--you can attach a lighter-resistance one to a sturdy table or couch leg and do a broader range of motion, too.  Super clams should help a bit.  As for yoga, I'm a big advocate of doing an entire workout.  This is mostly because I like vinyasa, which flows from one movement to the next, and that's where a lot of the benefit comes from.  Having said all that, I think all the warrior poses, and feeding into the side triangle, would probably help.  There are a bunch of others but I'm still a relative newbie so that's all I can think of at the moment. Blush

                         

                        Bago and Dreamn: that's the same Hall plan I saw earlier.  Still not sure about it.  And I thought about just changing the Pfitz plan to suit a half more, as well.  I'll have to look into the other Pfitz book and Run Faster, for sure.

                        My PR's! 5K: 21:54 | 10M: 1:16:55 | HM: 1:43:40 | Full: 3:51:56

                        2013: BQ or bust!

                        http://justalongfortherun.blogspot.com

                        nachosgrande


                          Josh - Good job on the first marathon.  Based on your and Docket's RR's, it's obvious that the conditions were far from ideal.  You guys did a great job on just finishing.

                           

                          Flinders - Congrats on the sub-1:40.  That's my main goal this year if I can ever get running again.

                           

                          Just to add to the training plan discussion, I did Pfitz and it ended up being too much for me.  Started encountering injuries six weeks out from the marathon and I'm still screwed up 2 months post-marathon.  I'm sure it's a great plan for experienced/faster runners, but I wouldn't recommend it for beginners.

                           

                          Ran 5 miles on Saturday morning and ended up with a bunch of pitting edema again in my left shin and some new intense localized pain in my right shin, so I've done nothing since then.  I've run less than 25 miles total in the past two months.


                          Canuck

                            Cbus - do you have an iPhone?  If you do, there is an app called Yoga for Runners that I have - I think it was $1.99.  I really like it because it gives you short and effective pre and post-run yoga routines that you can do in about 15 mins that get all the key areas.  I don't always do the pre-run routine as I prefer to do dynamic stretching, but I do it occasionally when I'm really stiff - it is a fairly dynamic routine, so it gets you warmed up nicely.  She also has another app called happy hips yoga, which might be right up your alley!

                             

                            Also, the yoga pose is called pigeon.  Another good one is called "cow" or "cow face" pose.  If you google yoga for runners or yoga poses for hips etc. I'm sure you'll find lots out there on the web.

                             

                            ETA: Actually, just found the website for the teacher whose app I use.  She has sequences on there that you can download, although I'd recommend the app as she guides you through each sequence. 

                             

                            Yogaland

                            PRs: 47:54 (10K); 1:46:36 (HM); 3:50:52 (FM)

                            Recovering from injured knee (PCL/Lateral Meniscus)


                            Smashy!!!

                              Akalei, thanks a ton--really. I'm gonna pick up a pack of Therabands.

                               

                              Zoe and Ak, thanks for the yoga leads. I'm gonna start with the PDFs, and if I can't figure them out, I'll see if there's an app for the iPad (don't have phone). My favorite so far is: Relaxation.

                              PRs: 21:35 (5K); 1:46:46 (HM); 4:30:46 (FM)


                              Canuck

                                I'm pretty sure there is an iPad app as well, but even if not, the iPhone apps work on the iPad, you just don't get the full screen.

                                PRs: 47:54 (10K); 1:46:36 (HM); 3:50:52 (FM)

                                Recovering from injured knee (PCL/Lateral Meniscus)