Sub-4 Marathon Group

January 2013 (Read 475 times)

nachosgrande


    Sprinkles – Nice MP run.

     

    Cbus – I’ve continued experimenting with the Adrenalines because I was trying to pinpoint if they really were contributing to my problems.  I’m coming to the conclusion that they are not for me.  But like Sprinkles mentioned, sometimes my feet want a little more cushioning than I get from the PureConnects.  I’ve got a $125 gift card to RoadRunner that I plan to use on a lower drop neutral trainer.  I didn’t like the PureFlow or Kinvara but I’m hoping to find a shoe with similar properties.  I actually liked the PureCadence (though it is a support shoe), so that’s an option.

     

    Cmb – Sucks to hear about the ITB.  Smart decision to take a rest day.

     

    Indi, Jedi and Flinders  - Nice workouts.

     

    Onemile – During the latter half of my Pfitz cycle marathon pace was fairly challenging on the legs, but not necessarily an issue with breathing.  It was still a conversational pace.  On race day (after taper), it felt very easy and my breathing was really under control – it felt more like general aerobic run effort.  I was able to carry on a pretty much non-stop conversation for the last 15 miles.  Then again, I paced myself about 30 seconds slower on race day than what I ran during the Pfitz MP workouts.  Smile

     

    Banshee  - Glad to hear that the Graston went better this time.  No more black & blue leg pics.

     

    me – ran 5 miles after work with 2.5 at tempo pace (around 7:45 at this point).  ran in the PureConnects and…voila…no pain or swelling.  I think they’re helping my form.  I had a bit of an aha! moment last night where I could feel my legs pushing/kicking back behind me instead of reaching out and “clawing” at the ground in front of me.  3 recovery miles on tap for lunch today.


    Ball of Fury

      Hi Donuts!  Just a quick check-in...I am in one of those crazy marathon days at work and it is super busy.  Been here since 6:30 AM yesterday and am ready to go home now...lol!  I was planning to run this afternoon, just a few easy miles outside, but I may opt for the TM depending on the weather situation.  It is cold and really windy.  Sorry no time for personals but will catch up tomorrow.

      PRs:  5K 22:59, 10K 46:54,HM: 1:51:15


      Rusk Runner

        My experience training for the Indianapolis Marathon and then running the Indianapolis Marthon was this;

        I could nail the times during training.  Sometimes it was hard and I was getting tired (I did 16 miles @GMP once).  I kept in mind that logging all of the miles and running all the hills was a factor in being tired.

        On race day GMP felt totally comfortable.  Everything was under control.  I knew I was going to make it at that pace once I got to mile 22.  I wasnt going to be able to push any harder, but it felt way easier than it did in training.

        The goal in training is to become tired.  You are definately going to feel tired and GMP is going to feel hard.  I think the real question is, do you have it in you to trust your training?

         

        Question for you guys... How does MP feel for you both in training and on race day?  What is your breathing / effort level like?

        PRs...5K - 20:36, 4mile - 26:15, 13.1 - 1:32, 26.2 - 3:42

        Just Run!!!


        Bad Ass

          MP to me feels somewhat easy especially when the runs are of short duration.  As they go into 8-10 miles @ MP it starts feeling a bit like the slow end of a tempo or closer to HMP (especially in those last miles).  On race day, the first few miles feel super easy but later they suddenly feel hard.  I don't have much to say about breathing/effort, since mine depends on my asthma on that day.

           

          Question for you guys... How does MP feel for you both in training and on race day?  What is your breathing / effort level like?

          Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

          Next:  San Francisco Marathon

          Blog

          "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."

          onemile


            Yeah this is probably my issue.  Right now I feel confident that I can complete the tempo runs on my plan (up to 10 miles at MP plus 3 wu/3cd) but I feel like I'm working too hard for it to be my actual MP (8:30 pace is what I'm doing right now).  But I ran 12 miles at a 9mm pace the other week and it felt easy and MP-y - I had to focus a bit to stay on pace but it didn't feel hard and my breathing was still easy.  Whereas at the 8:30 pace I feel like I'm breathing harder than I should be for MP.  (Easier than HM effort but harder than I would picture M effort being).

             

            The one marathon I did, I just did at the faster end of my training paces so I don't have much experience with what marathon race effort feels like.

             

            My experience training for the Indianapolis Marathon and then running the Indianapolis Marthon was this;

            I could nail the times during training.  Sometimes it was hard and I was getting tired (I did 16 miles @GMP once).  I kept in mind that logging all of the miles and running all the hills was a factor in being tired.

            On race day GMP felt totally comfortable.  Everything was under control.  I knew I was going to make it at that pace once I got to mile 22.  I wasnt going to be able to push any harder, but it felt way easier than it did in training.

            The goal in training is to become tired.  You are definately going to feel tired and GMP is going to feel hard.  I think the real question is, do you have it in you to trust your training?

             


            Canuck

              Morning all.  Shins feel much better today, so I will head out after work for an easy 6 or so, depending on how I feel.  I was doing some trigger point massage on myself last night and found a huge knot on the outside of my shin/calf area, up near my knee.  Going to try and work it out for the next few days, it is a doozy!  Doesn't feel like it will hamper my running though.  I have another chiro appt booked for Tuesday, so if it is still there, hopefully he can get rid of it.

               

              Pux - I can echo cbus recommendation of the NB890.  The v2 is quickly becoming my favorite neutral trainer.  I've read some very positive reviews of the v3, which is coming out in the next month or so, which means that you'll be able to pick up the v2 for a good price.  Apparently they haven't changed much, so if you like the 2, you'll like the 3 as well.

               

              As for the MP question, during training it depends.  Some days it feels hard, while other days it feels great.  Last year during my Vancouver training cycle I did 18 with 15 at GMP on the marathon course and it was one of the best runs I've every had.  During the race, it feels pretty effortless at the start, I always have to keep a close eye on my pace to make sure I don't go too fast.  It starts to feel like more of an effort around mile 16-18.  Last year I finally wasn't able to hold it by mile 22, so I slowed down.  It wasn't so much a breathing/cardio issue, I just couldn't get my legs to turnover fast enough anymore.

              PRs: 47:54 (10K); 1:46:36 (HM); 3:50:52 (FM)

              Recovering from injured knee (PCL/Lateral Meniscus)

              SprinklesRunner


              Whippet

                Question for you guys... How does MP feel for you both in training and on race day?  What is your breathing / effort level like?

                 

                Pretty much same as cmb said- in training it feels harder than on race day- there's no adrenaline, I probably didn't eat the ideal pre-marathon foods, and there's no one around me to run with, so I wind up having to focus on keeping the pace- I tend to either run too fast or too slow.  Usually a few miles into an MP run, the pace feels easier...its switching gears from slow to fast that I find difficult.

                13.1: 1:45 | 26.2: 3:55

                  I can't contribute to the marathon pace discussion yet as I haven't yet done one! I am planning to run only very slightly faster than my easy pace, I probably run too fast on my easy runs!

                   

                  Good job in tough weather, Indi, it was like that here today, very windy, I cut my run short from 11 miles to 5, wimped out.

                  A lot of extreme weather across North America, -35 in Josh's area with a windchill. Big snowfalls in the western US, also flooding in Queensland Australia. Weather systems do seem mixed up.

                   

                  I am happy with my modest monthly total, best January I have had and a good progression over the last few months. If I keep this up I should be ready for spring races.

                  PBs since age 60:  5k- 24:36, 10k - 47:17. Half Marathon- 1:42:41.

                                                      10 miles (unofficial) 1:16:44.

                   

                  mdawg87


                    Afternoon donuts!  Quick check in as I wrap up a few things at the office before heading home.  A little under 6 TM miles and stretching at the gym this morning.  I was going to run 5.5, but I only had about a minute and a half left on the TM timer so I said what the hell and finished it out.  No ill effects.  Still the same minor tightness that goes away after an hour or so.

                     

                    This shoe discussion on neutral vs. support shoes has me intrigued.  I wear the Saucony Guide 6s (and the 5s and 4s before that) and they are a slightly supportive shoe now with a lower drop (8mm).  They're supposed to be comparable to the Mizuno Elixers.  I'm wondering if changing to a true neutral trainer might be beneficial for my calves.  Cbus (and anyone else)...thoughts?

                     

                    One mile:  Same as a lot of folks here regarding MP during training vs. racing.  It feels harder in training.  I've had a couple of MP runs that were fantastic, the kind you want on race day.  Then, I've had others where I felt like my feet were encased in cement.  Weather, nutrition, terrain, etc. all play into it.  I will say living in a hilly area helps me in a flat race.  Makes race day feel easier.

                     

                    Gotta go finish up work.  Will check back tonight.

                    PRs:  1:39:24 (HM)  3:47:02 (FM)


                    Smashy!!!

                      Hey all,

                      Got in 5 tempo @ 8:12 + wu and cd for 9 mi total. Tuesday's Speed workout was too hard, and I was feeling it on today's workout. As hard as it was (and tempos are always tough, for me), I was able to nail my paces: 8:12, 8:12, 8:11, 8:12, 8:09. But I'm gonna make an adjustment for next week's Speed workout, and put my Garmin on AVG lap pace instead of Instant pace, because the Tempo workout increases to 6 mi.

                       

                      Onemile, I think there's a difference between not trusting your training and getting negative feedback from your training. I'm not saying 8:30 is too fast. But you gotta figure out if your hesitancy is coming from a lack of trust or your training saying that's too fast. Keep in mind that those Strength workouts are gonna make you stronger at your MP. So maybe when you get to the Strength stage, MP will start to feel easier. You might also run that workout called something dorky like "3 and Go." it's a LR with the last three miles at MP. If you can do that workout ,may be it'll give you some confidence (or some answers).

                       

                      Nachos, there are a TON of shoes between the Adrenaline and the Pure Connect. Maybe give the Launch a try, or the Precision or NB 890.

                       

                      Zoe, regarding 890 v. 3, NB got some negative feedback about the volume of the toe box. So basically kept everything the same and fine tuned the fit of the toe box. So if you like v.2, then you'll probably like v.3.

                      PRs: 21:35 (5K); 1:46:46 (HM); 4:30:46 (FM)

                      braycon


                        Six miles tonight on the treadmill.  I don't know how you run outside in this weather.  I got home and my high school sophomore was telling me he ran 3 miles averaging 7:30's in the ice, snow, wind outside.  Considering he hates running (this is his football workout), I was impressed and inspired by his effort.  Will I run outside tomorrow?  Ha, ha.  No way.  High school kids wear shorts in this kind of weather.  No, I'll be back inside (what's the high tomorrow, Cbus - like 15?) on the dreadmill.

                         

                        Seriously, on the topic of training pace versus race pace and how it feels...my perspective is that it's absolutely night and day, particularly as you get later in the training cycle.  You get physically and mentally worn out.  Like Zoe said, some days feel good, but others not so much.  But don't discount the power of the taper and, as others have said, the adrenaline.  Cbus is right - you have to listen to your training feedback to make sure you're at the right pace for you - but, unless outside factors play a role on race day (weather, injury, etc.), I think you're going to find that pace you struggle with at times during training, to be much, much easier when you toe the line for your big race.


                        Bad Ass

                          I have not tried Hanson but from what I read in the book, it will feel hard NOW because you're training is hard and it simulates the last 10-16 miles of the marathon rather than the first?  If the MP is based on your races and what we know you can achieve, trust the training.  If you don't achieve the time, you try again, but for now, I would push on through the training and let it guide you.  From their book, it sounds like you'll be surprise on race day at how easier it feels.

                           

                          Yeah this is probably my issue.  Right now I feel confident that I can complete the tempo runs on my plan (up to 10 miles at MP plus 3 wu/3cd) but I feel like I'm working too hard for it to be my actual MP (8:30 pace is what I'm doing right now).  But I ran 12 miles at a 9mm pace the other week and it felt easy and MP-y - I had to focus a bit to stay on pace but it didn't feel hard and my breathing was still easy.  Whereas at the 8:30 pace I feel like I'm breathing harder than I should be for MP.  (Easier than HM effort but harder than I would picture M effort being).

                           

                          The one marathon I did, I just did at the faster end of my training paces so I don't have much experience with what marathon race effort feels like.

                           

                          Damaris, Marathon Maniac, Ultra Runner

                          Next:  San Francisco Marathon

                          Blog

                          "The most powerful weapon on earth is the human soul on fire."


                          Smashy!!!

                            Mdawg, I know the Guide lost a little stability, but I think it's still gonna be less stable than the Elixir. The Elixir is barely stable. As for how it will affect your calves: I have no clue. But I'm all for experimenting. Maybe pick up a pair of neutral trainers and throw them into a rotation. I seem to be the opposite, however.I've moved to more supportive shoes, and I'm finding them more comfortable. I think the Inspire might be a litte too stable, but I think I'll look for shoes with some stability.

                             

                            Braycon, the weather wasn't all that bad today. I'm not some kind of a bad dude. I just don't mind the cold. The heat and humidity, however, is a different story. I dislike heat and humidity.

                            PRs: 21:35 (5K); 1:46:46 (HM); 4:30:46 (FM)


                            Trail Monster

                              I'm about 30 seconds from starting my ACSM class but I had to come brag! I ran 8.5 miles at 9:26 average pace tonight which included a 60 minute tempo run. And that put me at a monthly PR of 190.8 miles! I'm so happy with how my training is going! Okay, gotta run!

                              2013 races:

                              3/17 Shamrock Marathon

                              4/20 North Coast 24 Hour

                              7/27 Burning RIver 100M

                              8/24 Baker 50M

                              10/5 Oil Creek (distance to be determined)

                               

                              My Blog

                               

                              Brands I Heart:

                              FitFluential

                              INKnBURN

                              Altra Zero Drop


                              White Lightning

                                Evening everyone.  Really busy day but still got my run in.  10.4 GA miles at 9:45.  Started sunny and warm then clouds came rolling in and within minutes froze, way under dressed.  Good run none the less.  Shoulders & Arms tonight after dinner

                                Play the Game Hard!