Ultra Runners

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Pacing advice for experienced marathoner doing first 50M? (Read 67 times)

RunDeanRun


    Starting to get nervous ..... I think I have the electrolytes/nutrition/hydration dialed in for my first ultra but need feedback from some experienced ultra runners on what pace I should run. My last marathon (Apr 2013) was 3:03 (6:59 pace). Ultra training 80 - 100 mpw; 2 - 30 milers and a bunch of B2B's. Oh, and I'm an old guy (53 y/o) .... not sure if it matters .... LOL

     

    Any advice on pace and when to start the run/walk strategy? Also, what's a good rule of thumb for marathon to 50M time conversion? Advice greatly appreciated!

     

    Running Lean Horse in SD. Not technical with rolling hills.


    Uh oh... now what?

      It would read better if you didn't roll off all those training accomplishments, but haven't grasped the idea ... uh, Lean Horse as in the 24th of August of this year?  Sorry, I am not experienced enough to tell anyone what they can do in the last two weeks before their first ultra.  It's fifty miles of rails-to-trails--two weeks from now... I really need to delete this, am of no help, sorry.

      RunDeanRun


        Any  "helpful" suggestions on pacing & run/walk strategy for my first 50 mile race?


        Feeling the growl again

          Any  "helpful" suggestions on pacing & run/walk strategy for my first 50 mile race?

           

          Disclaimer:  I DNF'd both of my attempts at 50 miles.  First one went in knowingly undertrained with a go-big-or-go-home mentality, second one better trained but got injured.  Went for sub-6 both times.

           

          50 mile pace will be your usual easy run pace or even a bit slower.  I'd start a little slower, see how you feel and adjust accordingly.  Things get very different once you get north of 30 miles.  Better to err on the side of caution and go out slow.

          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

           

            Why run/walk?  With the training you put in you can run the whole way minus really steep hills.  As for pace,I would go with your pace for a easy 30 miler on the same terrain.  At first it should feel stupid slow but your legs will thankyu later.

            RunDeanRun


               

              Disclaimer:  I DNF'd both of my attempts at 50 miles.  First one went in knowingly undertrained with a go-big-or-go-home mentality, second one better trained but got injured.  Went for sub-6 both times.

               

              50 mile pace will be your usual easy run pace or even a bit slower.  I'd start a little slower, see how you feel and adjust accordingly.  Things get very different once you get north of 30 miles.  Better to err on the side of caution and go out slow.

              That makes sense; I will plan to go slightly slower than my easy pace. How about run/walk strategy (and do you use it from the beginning)? Timed like 25/5 or more loose like walk the uphills, run the downs & flats?


              Uh oh... now what?

                If you have not been practicing a run/walk sort of thing, it is a bit late to start.  You don't have time to find what ratio you will be comfortable with--assuming your mind will buy into it.  As best I recall the course is all rails-to-trails, i.e., there are no steep hills, just long ones.

                 

                Leanhorse is runnable and you say you have put in the multiple 30-mile thingies, believe in your training and (why not) run it from the start.

                 

                The thing about going out at "easy pace" (whatever that might be) is that you are left with no way to ease up--you are already at easy pace.  This is what you have been training for, not another training run, but the run where you combine the easy runs with the long tempo runs, eat and drink along the way--and, while an all-out effort is not expected, see how well you can run fifty miles.  It is easy to get bogged down in numbers when you need to be thinking of effort--are you running at an effort level you can sustain for however many hours it might take you.  The first check point would be how comfortable you are at the first couple of aid stations--no adjustments need be made until around 30 miles, then you can [should?] decide to pick it up, hold steady, or become conservative.

                 

                The complete saying is "walk the ups, shuffle the flats, and run the downs".

                 

                A marathon ran at sevens and 80-100 mile weeks should put you safely in under seven hours--all things being equal (some self belief needed).


                Trail Monster

                  I don't know what the temps are like but if its hot slow down more. I like to walk through aid stations and for about 5-10 minutes afterwards to eat and drink whatever I grabbed and let it settle.

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                  Feeling the growl again

                    That makes sense; I will plan to go slightly slower than my easy pace. How about run/walk strategy (and do you use it from the beginning)? Timed like 25/5 or more loose like walk the uphills, run the downs & flats?

                     

                    From what you describe of your training, do you really need to plan to walk?   It's not necessary for a flat 50 if you're adequately trained.

                    "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                     

                    jjameson


                      I'm 54 and my PR marathon is 2:59, so you are like me.  If it isn't too hot plan to run the whole thing at a 8:45 pace.  Shouldn't need to walk at all.  I'm hoping you've done lots of 20+ mile runs with some at a decent clip (sub 8).

                       

                       

                      DoppleBock


                        I am not sure how you marathon train ~ But there are times I do easy 20-22 milers in marathon training.  If you are a 7:00 per mile marathoner, this pace would be 8:20-8:40 maybe.  I was pretty steady at 6:30 (2:50 marathoner) and ran most my long easy runs @ 8:00 pace.

                         

                        Anyway ... this easy pace feeling is the pace I try to run a 50 miler.  I say feeling, because on trails and hills, I really do not care about the actual speed, just how the pace feels.

                         

                        The 1st 25 should feel easy (Think the 1st 13 miles of a marathon), the next 15 miles should feel harder, but manageable (Like mile 13 - 20 of marathon), the last 10 miles  should feel hard, but you are able to push youself to maintain a similar pace as earlier (Like the last 6 miles of a marathon)

                         

                        Basically, I try and run a fairly even race, it just keeps getting harder.

                         

                        Starting to get nervous ..... I think I have the electrolytes/nutrition/hydration dialed in for my first ultra but need feedback from some experienced ultra runners on what pace I should run. My last marathon (Apr 2013) was 3:03 (6:59 pace). Ultra training 80 - 100 mpw; 2 - 30 milers and a bunch of B2B's. Oh, and I'm an old guy (53 y/o) .... not sure if it matters .... LOL

                         

                        Any advice on pace and when to start the run/walk strategy? Also, what's a good rule of thumb for marathon to 50M time conversion? Advice greatly appreciated!

                         

                        Running Lean Horse in SD. Not technical with rolling hills.

                        http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                        2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35