Ultra Runners

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100 Mile Advice (Read 817 times)

    I'm making the leap this year to a 100 miler, the Kettle Moraine 100 in early June. I'm having some trouble putting together a good plan. Here's my thoughts:


    1. I'm focusing more on consistent total volume up to the race. I'd rather run 8 to 10 miles or so every day that do a crazy long run that puts me out of commission for a few days.
    2. I will do long runs of the back-to-back variety. One will be the "long" long run, the other will be the "short" long run. Right now, this is something along the lines of 15 to 20 one day, then 10 to 15 the next day. I would peak (under the stupid plan I put together) with a 50/25 weekend about a month before the race.
    3. I have some trail races and trail runs planned to get used to this. The longest trail race I'll do before this will be a 50K in a couple of weeks. I've done one 50K before, without issue.
    4. I have no idea what I'm doing, really.

    Am I off base?


    Here are my questions:

    1. What should I fuel with or experiment fueling with?
    2. Is my plan fatally flawed or semi-decent?
    3. Any definite do's or don't's that I need to learn?
    4. What's the secret to getting this thing done and getting it done under 24 hours?

    Please critique, call me an idiot, whatever. I just like a challenge.


    #2867

      Advice originally offered in the swamp:

       

      Congrats and good luck!

       

      The longest I've gone so far is 50 miles, but I train with a bunch of guys that do 1 or 2 100 milers every year and get to listen to them talk about it.

       

      1. Fueling

      What you'll need to fuel is obviously very individual, but I recommend finding some Fat Ass races in your area (or putting one on if there aren't any) and let everybody bring something for the aid station.  Perfect place to experiment with what works.  Personally, I like Crank as a gel packet, hornet juice for pre-run, and pro-grade products for post-run.  Honestly, though, I usually just eat my breakfast, then carry some water and throw a bag of gummy bears in a pocket for the run, and eat a banana and/or apple afterwards during training.  This year I'll experiment with s-caps, heed, and stuff like that too.  For the really long runs I might also bake some of my own protein bars or a loaf of bread or some apple leathers to carry.  If I know I'll have access to plenty of water I'll make some jerky, too, although I don't eat much of that at a time when I'm running.

       

      2. Fatal Flaws

      Seems like a good plan to me.  It's pretty similar to what I did getting ready for my 50 and close to what my buddies do.  I like the back to back long runs, and even tried a 3 runs of 20-24 miles in 5 days stint a month before the 50 with some shorter runs in between. 

       

       3. Dos and Donts

      Do: Learn what your body can take in terms of fuel and how much refueling you require.  Your back to back long days will really be helpful there, especially that 50/25 weekend.

      Don't: Get injured.

       

      4. Secret to sub-24

      I don't know, I've never done it yet.

       

      5. Idiot

      Yup, you are an idiot.  It's great.  (By the way - be glad your trip to Maine got canceled - there's no way we would have gotten that trail run in that day due to the weather.  Unless you brought snowshoes, of course.)

       

      Last piece of advice: Concentrate on recovery.  Get a foam roller and use it religiously, refuel as close to the end of your runs as your stomach and circumstances allow, and get plenty of sleep.  Stay hydrated.  Personally, I've had pretty good experiences with compression socks/leg sleeves, so I'd recommend those, but the other 4 are more important.  (If you haven't entered yet, I'm giving away a couple pairs of recovery socks, you have until Sunday to enter: http://www.1moremileforsunshine.com/249/win-a-free-pair-of-recovery-socks )

      Run to Win
      25 Marathons, 17 Ultras, 16 States (Full List)

        Yeah, thanks for the advice. The injured part is what I worry about, mainly due to the volume. So far so good, but a looooong way to go.
        Carl A


          Speed my steps along your path, according to your will.

            I have no advice based on experience, but find myself in a similar situation. The folks around here made some good points in my post not too long ago... http://www.runningahead.com/groups/ultra/forum/bb57dfc9ace54bc89f9c2db18b7c741b/0

            I have been working on a training plan and used some of these as resources.

            http://www.trailrunevents.com/ul/schedule-100m.htm

            http://www.ultrunr.com/train100.html

            http://www.hillcountrytrailrunners.com/docs/100MilerTraining%20Plan_mike.html

            ~Sara
            It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great. ~ Jimmy Dugan


            You'll ruin your knees!

              I posted a response over in GSP2000.

              ""...the truth that someday, you will go for your last run. But not today—today you got to run." - Matt Crownover (after Western States)

                1. What's the secret to getting this thing done and getting it done under 24 hours?

                 

                You can't bank time. 

                 

                Do the first 50 a lot slower than your body wants you to go.  Being able to *run* the 2nd 50 is key to a fast time.  I've never run a sub-24 because the only two 100s I've done were both pretty hilly (Leadville 100 and Bear 100)...but going out slow and finishing still running were keys to (relatively) fast times at both (26:22 and 27:30 respectively).   It also makes the event a LOT more fun if the last 2/3rd, timewise, isn't a sufferfest of epic proportions. 


                You'll ruin your knees!

                   

                  You can't bank time. 

                   

                  Do the first 50 a lot slower than your body wants you to go.  Being able to *run* the 2nd 50 is key to a fast time.  I've never run a sub-24 because the only two 100s I've done were both pretty hilly (Leadville 100 and Bear 100)...but going out slow and finishing still running were keys to (relatively) fast times at both (26:22 and 27:30 receptively).   It also makes the event a LOT more fun if the last 2/3rd, timewise, isn't a sufferfest of epic proportions. 

                   +100

                  ""...the truth that someday, you will go for your last run. But not today—today you got to run." - Matt Crownover (after Western States)

                     

                    You can't bank time. 

                     

                    Do the first 50 a lot slower than your body wants you to go.  Being able to *run* the 2nd 50 is key to a fast time.  I've never run a sub-24 because the only two 100s I've done were both pretty hilly (Leadville 100 and Bear 100)...but going out slow and finishing still running were keys to (relatively) fast times at both (26:22 and 27:30 receptively).   It also makes the event a LOT more fun if the last 2/3rd, timewise, isn't a sufferfest of epic proportions. 

                     

                    Thanks... and that will be the tough part, not getting caught up "feeling good" and going hard.

                    So, if my goal is 24, do I go out and run ~14:00 pace from the beginning? Or do I go 12:00 and expect some slow down or prolonged aid station breaks?


                    You'll ruin your knees!

                       

                      Thanks... and that will be the tough part, not getting caught up "feeling good" and going hard.

                       

                      So, if my goal is 24, do I go out and run ~14:00 pace from the beginning? Or do I go 12:00 and expect some slow down or prolonged aid station breaks?

                       I think you could assume at least 45 min to 1 hour of aid station time (if you beware the chair), so you could dial it down to 13 or so... run that for as long as you can and you can feel free to pick it up after 75... (this assumes that the rolling hills are spread evenly throughout the course, if they are bunched up, you'll have to figure the adjustment if yo want to slow down on the hillier parts and pick it up a bit on the flats (if there are any)...

                      ""...the truth that someday, you will go for your last run. But not today—today you got to run." - Matt Crownover (after Western States)

                        It seems, all things being mostly equal along the course, that out in about 45% of total time and back in about 55% of total time is about optimal.  It's really really really hard to even or negative split a 100 miler (unless the first half is harder, etc). 

                         

                        Lynn is spot on too... you have to avoid the chair time.  0mph really destroys the average speed... and there are so many aid stations in a 100 miler that even 5 minute breaks can add up to huge amounts of time going nowhere.  Never sit, if you can.  It does no good whatsoever.  The chair is EVIL.    EVIL!!     

                          Also, a couple of aid station tips I've picked up from friends wiser and faster (and better looking) than me.

                           

                          1. If you're using the A/S food (and not your own), bring a small plastic bag/baggie.  Give a volunteer your bottles/pack to refill and while they are doing that, go thru quickly, dropping what you want into the plastic bag.  Walk out of the A/S and eat while walking.  Walking 3mph and eating is better than sitting or standing at 0mph and eating.

                           

                          2. If you have a crew, have them swap packs with you.  You give them your empty and they give you a full, ready to go.  Saves TONS of time because you can basically walk through and never stop.    A bonus is they get to empty/clean out your old pack and they can keep an inventory of what you've been eating.

                           

                          Lastly:  Late in the race when that little voice is screaming in your ear, and your feet hurt so bad from kicking your own ass: if it doesn't hurt any more (or much more) to run, may as well run.  At least it will be over with quicker. 


                          I'm noboby, who are you?

                            I'm making the leap this year to a 100 miler, the Kettle Moraine 100 in early June. I'm having some trouble putting together a good plan. Here's my thoughts:


                            1. I'm focusing more on consistent total volume up to the race. I'd rather run 8 to 10 miles or so every day that do a crazy long run that puts me out of commission for a few days.
                            2. I will do long runs of the back-to-back variety. One will be the "long" long run, the other will be the "short" long run. Right now, this is something along the lines of 15 to 20 one day, then 10 to 15 the next day. I would peak (under the stupid plan I put together) with a 50/25 weekend about a month before the race.
                            3. I have some trail races and trail runs planned to get used to this. The longest trail race I'll do before this will be a 50K in a couple of weeks. I've done one 50K before, without issue.
                            4. I have no idea what I'm doing, really.

                            Am I off base?


                            Here are my questions:

                            1. What should I fuel with or experiment fueling with?
                            2. Is my plan fatally flawed or semi-decent?
                            3. Any definite do's or don't's that I need to learn?
                            4. What's the secret to getting this thing done and getting it done under 24 hours?

                            Please critique, call me an idiot, whatever. I just like a challenge.

                             

                            A leap from what to a 100 miler???? I'm trying to understand what you are using for background.  How many  miles per week do you think you'll need to run to get sub 24 or even finish?  What means consistent miles?  A 50/25 the month before?  Sounds like you think you need to run a  hell of lot of miles. I know KM only has 12,000 feet of up and down, low compared to many, but you may want to factor elevation numbers into your plan. Try to run on terrain that is equal to or harder than the race.Think in quality not quantity.

                             

                             

                            The "crazy long run" as you put it, is your bread and butter and needs to be your focus. 

                             

                             

                            At this point I have more questions of what is rattling in your head about how to train for a 100. So let's explore this first.

                             

                             

                             

                               

                              A leap from what to a 100 miler???? I'm trying to understand what you are using for background.  How many  miles per week do you think you'll need to run to get sub 24 or even finish?  What means consistent miles?  A 50/25 the month before?  Sounds like you think you need to run a  hell of lot of miles. I know KM only has 12,000 feet of up and down, low compared to many, but you may want to factor elevation numbers into your plan. Try to run on terrain that is equal to or harder than the race.Think in quality not quantity.

                               

                               

                              The "crazy long run" as you put it, is your bread and butter and needs to be your focus. 

                               

                               

                              At this point I have more questions of what is rattling in your head about how to train for a 100. So let's explore this first.

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              The longest I've done to this point is a 50k. I'll be doing another 50k in a couple of weeks. Both have a good amount of elevation change. Also for the hills, I do a hill loop near my house twice a week that has some steep short hills and some gradual longer hills.

                              I was lazy in logging miles here on the site last year, but my weeks were typically 40 to 50 miles, with higher peaks thrown in when marathon training. I'm trying to get better at logging every day to be able to track things. Right now I'm running ~50 to 60 per week, and will peak in the 90's or low-100 when doing the longer long runs. I'm doing an average of 7 to 10 miles per day during the week, and then longer on the weekends.

                              No idea what I'll need to finish a 100 or even do it in 24 hours. My plan is to run a lot, do the long run up to 50, and cross my fingers.

                              Trent


                              Good Bad & The Monkey


                                I'll be doing another 50k in a couple of weeks.

                                 

                                Which one?

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