I ordered the Mafate 2 - the first pair was a 7 same as the Mafate in the picture but they had changed it slightly so it felt just a bit too short , sent them back . Ordered a 7.5 which came yesterday and I cannot tighten them enough to stop bad heel slipping . I can't bring myself to spend the $170 for the Stinson ( I can find the Mafate on sale ) so I think I'm going to just go back to my Mindbenders . I will run the chewed up Mafate for another month or two .

The pro's for me - as advertised I started walking then running in them @ a month after knee surgery they are very knee friendly . They also protected my foot which has arthritis in my first metatarsal joint . I have only run on fire roads and the treadmill and my longest run so far has been 10 miles . They are great in the cold keeping your feet warm .

The cons- They are not holding up to my modest use , they don't have very good tread and tend slip more on mud , snow & ice . I believe they would be hot in the summer . The heel slipping thing .....I don't know now having worn them if I recommend them to anyone because of the high cost and low durability .

valierienv, Have you tried Saucony Xodus 3? It's almost as wide as the Mindbender, but a *lot* better ride. I couldn't find the mindbender specs for forefoot data, but the xodus has a rockplate and 3mm more protection in the forefoot than Adrenaline ASR. It's definitely not cushy like the Hokas, but it's working better for me than mindbenders - and even tolerable on asphalt with thin snow cover. I got them late fall, so I haven't had them on unfrozen dirt yet - maybe in a couple months.

Part of my problem had been what we thought was plantar wart on both forefeet, so protection was needed up front. Turned out it was something else, which podiatrist removed (might come back), But the Xodus was doing better for me even before that was removed.

While the Xodus is neutral and the Badrock has a FluidPost for stability, the Xodus feels like it has more support to me - at least with my issues and the way I run. I used to have late-stage pronation and needed torsional control near the forefoot, rather than support where the medial posts are.

I've had Badrocks for about 1.5-2 yr now with 2 marathons and the last 12 mi of a 50mi plus a bunch of training. They've been my go-to shoe for longer runs, esp. on wider trails and gravel roads. I don't use them for short trail races with rocks and roots - they'd work, but prefer my NB749. Badrocks are definitely cushier than Xodus, but no rockplate in forefoot so hurt on gravel - but not as bad as some of my other shoes. I feel rocks in my Badrocks but not in my xodus. Badrocks have 10mm vs 4mm heel to toe drop, so they'd be more like a regular shoe than the Xodus would. Badrocks have been the shoe I use to get through things that are gravelly - better than what I had before but for *me*, the Xodus is better - so far. I like the mindbender better for fit, but it rode like a hiking boot.

Since we've had crumby snow this year, I haven't done a multi-hour long run in anything, let alone my Xodus, and it will be a couple months yet before I can do a long run on dirt. I'm hoping I can get a long run in next week. So jury is still out, but they just provide enough support for me that's missing in other shoes - feet would start tiring, but didn't really need a full-scale orthotic.

I'm banking on the Xodus working and just asked my LRS to be sure they've got one of my size next time I'm in (couple weeks). They're expecting another shipment of Hokas next week and ordering a 8.5 Stinson Evo for me.

Anyone have the Bondi B 2?  Are they more firm (less soft) than the originals.  Cushy sounds great but don't think the ankles can do Mafates.  Curious if anyone has experienced the new models.

AK - I have about 300 miles on my Stinson Evo Low's.  Didn't like them the first run, but felt much better after breaking them in a bit.  I also replaced the speed laces.  I wear them when I do long non-technical runs, or when I do hill repeats (for the downhill).  Good luck with them.  I rotate a variety of shoes, anywhere from MT 101's to Mizuno Wave Ascend's.