Ultra Runners

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WSER training advice (Read 95 times)


I'm back!

    I'm running Western States this year, 6/27-28, so 8 weeks out. I ran it two years ago, thought sure I was in sub-24 shape, but ran 27:17. So, I have unfinished business. Miraculously, I got in again this year (raffle).

     

    Unfortunately, I haven't been able to train to the level I'd like. I tore my hamstring tendons last summer, and recovery was very slow. Finally, I think I am at 100%, but I'm not where I'd like to be in terms of training.

     

    You can see my log, but it looks like I've averaged about 47 mpw so far this year. I've run the Napa Valley Marathon, 42 miles at Pac Rim 24-hour (7 hours), Umstead 50, Boston Marathon, and Big Sur Marathon, all as fairly easy training runs. So my longest run is 50 miles -- the last time I ran longer was 74 miles at a 12-hour last spring.

     

    After Big Sur a week ago, I got in 60 miles last week, planning for 70+ this week through early June. Hopefully I won't have any roadblocks with that mileage. In terms of upcoming long runs, I'll do the first WS training day May 24th, 32 miles (Robinson Flat to Foresthill), followed by 42 miles over 5/26-28 (organized Rogue River trail run). Trail 50K on 6/7. And that's about it... I can't find anything longer to squeeze in, in terms of organized races. (There's a local 100K this weekend, but unfortunately I have to get in my WS trailwork that day to meet the 5/15 deadline, dammit.)

     

    So the first question, for those more experienced than I am, is how much I should worry about long runs. Am I OK with what I have? Maybe I just have to bite the bullet and do some solo ultra distances and/or back-to-back long runs... it's so much easier to just find a race. I really can't see going over about 50K by myself unsupported. In fact I can't remember the last time I even went over 20 outside of a race.

     

    Then, there's structure. I figure midweek medium-long run (14ish), a double or two, one or two days of my standard 9-mile hill workout (this route), something long (18-24ish) on the weekend. Maybe a day of speedwork (at least over the next couple weeks -- I have Bay to Breakers 12K on 5/18). The rest easy.

     

    Heat training... I'm getting in some hot runs. Will probably get in some sauna time as well.

     

    Any other suggestions? I really, really want that silver buckle this time.

     

    Thanks in advance.

    jjameson


      It sounds to me you are doing all you can do.  Some rest is important too.  I'm no expert.

       

      My fastest times in ultras have come with a combination of long runs, and also fast runs (ie something like 15 miles at MP).  I think even LT runs are helpful 4-6 miles.  Honestly, some of the weeks from Phitz are great for ultra training.

       

       


      I'm back!

        It sounds to me you are doing all you can do.  Some rest is important too.  I'm no expert.

         

        My fastest times in ultras have come with a combination of long runs, and also fast runs (ie something like 15 miles at MP).  I think even LT runs are helpful 4-6 miles.  Honestly, some of the weeks from Phitz are great for ultra training.

         

        Thanks. That's great, because Pfitz is my bible.

          I have no experience completing hundreds but I do pretty decent on hilly races 50 and below.  Not mountains, but even some of the midwest races can equal WS100 in terms of elevation gain per mile just a ton of ups and downs. If it were me, I would be getting in 2-3 runs a week with some serious vertical.  I don't recall WS100 elevation chart off the top of my head but I thought it had several long climbs.  I would be simulating that, going for 3000-4000 feet at least two runs per week even if it means one of those on the dreadmill.  As far as speed training goes, that is icing on the cake.  If you get in your hill training it will more than make up for what you miss with speedwork.

           

          Personally I don't really see a lot of value in B2B long runs if you are getting in 80+ MPW, but I have no experience running ultras below that mileage.  As long as you get your 42 and 2-3 50K+s in, I think you are probably good with the long runs.  You know how to run long, it's more a matter of quality between now and WS100.

           

          In terms of heat training, personally I think there are two factors, heat acclimation, and knowing your breaking point.  I've self destructed pretty good in few races even though I was running in 80-90 degree temps all summer.  Problem was I just didn't realize my threshold and once you cross it things get bad quick.  So if it were me, I would do at least one long run in hot conditions or way over dressed to get familiar again with running for several hours in heat stress.

           

          All of this is more or less speculative so take it for what it is worth.  Either way, good luck!


          old woman w/hobby

              Honestly, some of the weeks from Phitz are great for ultra training.

             

            jj-  Could you expound on this please?

             


            Bob-  You're probably ahead of me on this but Pam Smith had some great info on heat training and how she

            dealt with heat on the day in one of her race reports after last years race.

            steph  

             

            OCD  If you don't laugh...   

                

              So the first question, for those more experienced than I am

              Like this has ever stopped me anyone on RA from offering an opinion Smile

               

              Bob, I got nothing to offer but my best wishes, you're gonna rock it


              I'm back!

                 I don't recall WS100 elevation chart off the top of my head but I thought it had several long climbs.  I would be simulating that, going for 3000-4000 feet at least two runs per week even if it means one of those on the dreadmill. 

                 

                Yeah, there is a lot of vertical, but really the downhill is more an issue than the uphill. No one finishes WS with functional quads. Fortunately all I have here is hills. I think maybe I do need to take my standard hill run (1500' straight up, then down, over 9 miles) and do some loops in the middle.

                 

                Bob-  You're probably ahead of me on this but Pam Smith had some great info on heat training and how she

                dealt with heat on the day in one of her race reports after last years race.

                 

                Yeah, I have studied that. I love how she killed it last year basically by being smarter than everyone else. I picked her brain a bunch running a few laps with her at Pac Rim. And she offered me this yesterday on Facebook: "Don't sweat getting in longer runs. Work the hills, hit the gym (squats, lunges, and deadlifts) and be serious about the sauna"

                 

                Bob, I got nothing to offer but my best wishes, you're gonna rock it

                 

                Thanks, I sure hope so. Mostly I think it is now about walking that fine line between getting as much training as I can and reinjury.

                  Sounds like you've got a good plan Bob.  Go forth and kick ass!  

                    You have the endurance, Bob, so you probably don't have to worry TOO much about getting in super long runs (the ones you already have planned should be sufficient).  I think your plan for a longer mid-week run plus hill and speed work will be great.

                    Upcoming races: 10/12 Victoria Marathon, 12/7 Tucson Marathon, 12/13 Deception Pass 50K, 3/27-28 Umstead 100


                    old woman w/hobby

                       

                      Yeah, I have studied that. I love how she killed it last year basically by being smarter than everyone else. I picked her brain a bunch running a few laps with her at Pac Rim. And she offered me this yesterday on Facebook: "Don't sweat getting in longer runs. Work the hills, hit the gym (squats, lunges, and deadlifts) and be serious about the sauna"

                       

                       

                       

                      It's great that she's willing to share.  Good luck!

                      steph  

                       

                      OCD  If you don't laugh...   

                      HoosierDaddy


                        Run downhill, a lot.

                         

                        And save it for Forest Hill....

                         

                        I am sure your endurance is fine - nutrition and hydration will be the big deal through canyons.

                        Sandy-2


                          Run downhill, a lot.

                           

                          And save it for Forest Hill....

                           

                          I am sure your endurance is fine - nutrition and hydration will be the big deal through canyons.

                           

                          +1

                          tbd

                          prideandjoy5


                            Congrats Bob on your sub 24hr finish!!!


                            I'm back!

                              Thanks!


                              Consistently Slow

                                 

                                 


                                 

                                Yeah, I have studied that. I love how she killed it last year basically by being smarter than everyone else. I picked her brain a bunch running a few laps with her at Pac Rim. And she offered me this yesterday on Facebook: "Don't sweat getting in longer runs. Work the hills, hit the gym (squats, lunges, and deadlifts) and be serious about the sauna"

                                 

                                 

                                Dammit! I hate the gym.

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