Ultra Runners

1

Intentional positive split for 50 miler on a hot humid day? (Read 70 times)

npaden


    Okay, my race forecast is for a high of 89 degrees and it's near Houston so it is always humid there.

     

    I've been concerned about the humidity for a while, but combined with the forecasted 89 degrees I'm a little worried.

     

    The race starts at 6:00 am and my "A" goal was to run a 10:00 avg pace and finish in 8 1/2 hours which would have me finishing at 2:30 that afternoon.  It's a 50 miler that is a pancake flat course with very easy non-technical trails.

     

    My original plan was just to go out at a 9:30 pace and just maintain that until I couldn't hold it anymore and then mix in walk breaks.  According to some of the calculators, that 8:30 is doable and maybe even a little conservative.  I'm pretty sure I'm in sub 3:30 marathon shape, maybe even 3:25.

     

    With the forecast, I'm not sure if I should push it a tiny bit faster early and then slow it down after that.  On normal easy runs 9:00 pace feels pretty easy, last night with the taper freshening my legs I felt like I was running very easy and ran 8 miles at a 8:55 pace.

     

    I've been reading everything I can on running in hot, humid weather and plan on doing everything I can, but when it comes down to it, running in 80 degree weather with 20% humidity just isn't going to get me acclimatized.  I'll be using ice bandana, etc., but I'm still worried about overheating.  I'm a big guy (205 lbs) so the heat seems to affect me more than average.

     

    Okay, really long post just to ask a simple question, but how crazy would it be to intentionally go out a bit faster to take advantage of the cooler morning?

     

    Thanks, Nathan

    Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

    Current PR's:  Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)

    rlopez


      I can tell you from long experience at Hawai'i marathons that "beat the sun" (go out fast to beat the heat and humidity) never really worked for me.  When it got hot, I was toast from running a little harder.

      That said, 50 milers present different challenges.  In the case of Brazos Bend, which I assume is your race, "even splits" is a totally reasonable thing to ponder from a course perspective.... many 50s, it kind of isn't. But back to the heat.  50 miles is a long way.  The heat will get you.  But going out too fast is gonna get you too.  So I would probably go out an itsy bit faster, maybe, but not much... but yeah, you are gonna slow down no matter what.  And you need to.  Heat exhaustion is no fun.

        I'll confess I've done that before multiple times and most times it did not work out the way I wanted.  Usually your advantage is limited to the first 1/4 of the race and you pay back double in the last 1/4 of the race if you get it just a little wrong.  One in a great while you get lucky, but when you don't it is brutal.  On a first 50 miler I wouldn't take that chance.

        npaden


          Thanks for the comments.

           

          Everything you read on pacing for a 50 miler is to do everything in your power to not go out too fast so I wasn't sure if "beating the heat" would be worth it or not.

           

          It sure is tempting with a forecast like that since more than likely I will end up doing some significant walking once it gets that hot whether I go out fast or slow though.

          Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

          Current PR's:  Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)

          DoppleBock


            I Think running the right 50 mile pace in the beginning (Based on the temperature) makes sense - Basically maybe take the race in 1/4's and what pace would you run for each quarter given the conditions.  This is really not trying to bank time - just match effort and to race conditions.  Since overheating will be a big risk - What steps will you take in the 3rd and 4th quarter to keep core body temperature down?  I would guess regular scheduled walk breaks.

             

            I am not a big fan of electronics - But this would be a time that keeping your HR within a zone would make sense ... Allowing for a little drift late in the race.

            Long dead ... But my stench lingers !

             

             

            bhearn


              I don't have as much experience with hot 50 milers as others here, certainly srlopez. But in principle I'm not sure the philosophy is different from any race in which the second half is harder than the first -- say Boston. Unless the difference is extreme, my inclination is always to "bank energy" instead of "banking time", go out easy and save it for the hard part.

              jjameson


                You are going to feel like crap at 40 miles regardless.  Maybe more so if you go out too fast.

                I agree with bhearn.  He"s a smart guy.

                 

                 

                npaden


                  Finished my 50 mile trail run in Houston yesterday.  Got my nice positive split even though I ended up trying not to go out too fast.  It was 3 - 17 mile loops and I ran the first in 2:42, second in 2:51, and the third in 3:58!  I finished in 9 hours and 31 minutes. That ended up 18th place out of 94 finishers. There were almost 150 registered, not sure how many of those didn't show up to start, and how many of those dropped out during the race.

                   

                  It started out nice, then started to rain a bit, then rained really hard for an hour or more, then more rain off and on for several hours, then a couple hours of clouds and then the sun broke through and started baking things for the last 3 hours or so. I

                  It was harder than I expected, but not as hard as I expected at the same time. I'm feeling a lot better than I expected, pretty sore, but no blisters, no toenails that feel like they are going to fall off or anything like that. Especially considering that my feet were wet for about 45 of the 50 miles. A bit of chaffing and a little sunburned, but not bad considering the crazy conditions. I actually got out and ran a couple mile recovery jog Sunday evening and it felt pretty good.

                  I took a few pictures and saw plenty of alligators and even got a good picture of one right off the trail. Lots of mud and then lots of sun there at the end. I'm going to write up a race report at some point. I didn't finish the race thinking I'm never doing that again or anything like that, but I didn't finish it thinking I needed to sign up for another one tomorrow either.

                  Maybe a nice mountain 50K this summer...

                  Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

                  Current PR's:  Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)

                    Congrats!


                    Keep Going

                      Finished my 50 mile trail run in Houston yesterday.  Got my nice positive split even though I ended up trying not to go out too fast.  It was 3 - 17 mile loops and I ran the first in 2:42, second in 2:51, and the third in 3:58!  I finished in 9 hours and 31 minutes. That ended up 18th place out of 94 finishers.

                       

                      Little late here..but congrats! That's a great time!

                      100 milers are my favorite

                       

                      AmoresPerros


                      Options,Account, Forums

                        Am about to run D3, and forecast sounds similar--70F now to 80F by 1100. But it says partly cloudy all day, so I hope we get the cloudy part Smile   Will see what happens.

                        It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.