Ultra Runners

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Drop Bags (Read 76 times)


Uh oh... now what?

    I think (very erratic function) the low humidity at Western (and parts of eastern Oregon) have something to do with it.

    Opinion formed when it was either cotton or polypropylene.

     

    Medium to high temps, low humidity --- cotton okay

    Medium to high temps, medium to high humidity... back to the tech materials


    I'm back!

      I overheard part of a post-race interview she was giving, talking about a lot of her training and race-day decisions. I'm not sure where this interview wound up, but she has mentioned she's going to write up something about this, probably for irunfar (in addition to her race report, which is already there).

       

      That's where I heard her mention cotton, also that she does "carb backloading" (which I've just started to read about), and various other interesting things.

        I tried to look up carb backloading but most references seem to be for bodybuilding. Seems like the principle is lay off carbs for a period of time then switch to carb only right before a big workout or race?

         

        I also find the keto diet intriguing and know of a few fairly competitive ultra runners that use it.  My problem is I'm not willing to change my diet that significantly for an entire training cycle.


        Uh oh... now what?

          ...

          I also find the keto diet intriguing and know of a few fairly competitive ultra runners that use it.  My problem is I'm not willing to change my diet that significantly for an entire training cycle.

          That unwillingness to try a different method, be it mileage, diet, or mantra is common

          throughout running ultramarathons.  The psychological burden of believing in a new

          way and committing to trying it is very difficult to overcome--even harder than the

          physical part of it.

           

          Note:  I should probably use "reluctance" instead of "unwillingness".  Either way, it

          was a difficult thing to do.

            That unwillingness to try a different method, be it mileage, diet, or mantra is common

            throughout running ultramarathons.  The psychological burden of believing in a new

            way and committing to trying it is very difficult to overcome--even harder than the

            physical part of it.

             

            For me there is a big difference between altering mileage, race fueling, or training methods and switching your diet from what is normal for you and your family (or choosing to eat separate meals than your family) to a diet that is basically the opposite of vegan .  No offense to vegan folks but food options are much more limited especially when eating out.  It is very similar with a high fat only diet like keto.  So to me this isn't a decision limited to how it affects my running, but my entire life.

             

            So maybe I should restate my PoV.  Eating a normal diet of foods and having the flexibility to eat where/what I want is more of a priority to me than potentially improving my running by a marginal amount.  I am always looking for new training methods, fueling techniques, etc, to incorporate, but we all need to make choices based on priorities.  Running 150 MPW would very likely improve my fitness, but that would require me to find a different job, have less time with my wife and kids, etc.

             

            It's not about believing whether it works or not, it's about whether I want to focus my life around running versus have running a part of my life.

             

            MTA - Frankly, I usually see the opposite problem with (ultra)runners in general.  They believe too much without thinking it through and jump on every new fad they see, minimalist, crossfit/FIRST, etc.


            I'm back!

              Pam says she eats carbs only for dinner, and trains in the morning, so she does her workouts carb-fueled, but reaps the benefits of a carb-free diet (improved fat metabolism) the rest of the day.

               

              One of the speakers in the medical session before WS this year showed the results of a study at last year's race, comparing performance of runners who regularly ate lots of carbs vs. few carbs. I was rather depressed to see that the low-carbers did better. I can't live without bread and pasta. But possibly I could do the kind of carb backloading Pam does.

               

              I'm always eager to try new things in training. But before I do, I have to have a solid model in my head of how the supposed benefits are supposed to work. I'm not quite there yet on carb backloading, but I will be reading up.


              I'm back!

                Here is Pam's interview that I overheard, where she talks a little about the cotton shirt and carb backloading.

                 

                http://www.ultrarunning.com/ultra/features/world/ultrarunning-interview-pam-smith.shtml

                  A good read.  Thanks Bhearn!   It's always cool to hear about the determination and perseverance that goes into racing 100 miles.  Sounds like she had everything planned out and executed perfectly.   I definitely have some things to think about regarding carbo backloading.  Any idea how long you need to be on this diet to gain the benefits?


                  I'm back!

                    No idea. I've been exchanging emails with her today, but I don't really want to pester her with tons of questions. The frustrating thing, which she agrees with, is that most of what you can find on the net about carb backloading is self-promoting BS, and not oriented to runners anyway. Seems like she's a bit of a pioneer here.

                     

                    But definitely, it has helped her. She's leaner -- I and others thought she looked thinner this year, but she hasn't lost weight.


                    Uh oh... now what?

                      Hope I am not hijacking away from the eating part... (thought about blathering about playing nutrition lab rat at Oregon State University for PhD students while we trained for the MacDonald Forest 50k).

                       

                      I thought I would offer a bit of explanation about trying a different training method.  I am not advocating, nor evangelizing any one method over another. I am not a credentialed coach of any kind.  The only credentials I have these days involves chain saws and we are not supposed to run with them.

                       

                      In my first year of running ultramarathons I got the idea that a subseven-hour 50-miler would be a good goal. I had no information sources other than conversations at whatever ultra was being done that month. I simply ran what I thought was a lot. I ran long on Saturdays (one 30+ miles every three or four weeks) and medium on Wednesday (about 12 miles).The other days were anywhere from six to ten miles at a wide variety of effort levels.

                       

                      I ran four subeight-hour (two road, two trail) 50-mile ultra in the first half of the year. In October I ran a 6:31 50-miler. On the way home (wife ran ultras too) we got to talking about training. Neither of us knew what we were doing, just running more than we used to.  The result of several conversations led me to believe I needed to do more long runs, more endurance stuff. Seemed reasonable.

                       

                      I changed the long-run schedule, did what today might be called a modified back-to-back sort of thing. Long (30ish) on Saturday, short (10ish) on Sunday--and changed Wednesday to 15ish. All with the intent of getting down to the six-hour 50-mile time.  At the point where I started the taper for Le Grizz all I felt was tired. The nagging tiredness from all the running ate into the confidence I needed. The second trip to Le Grizz was a disaster, 7:25ish I think.

                       

                      I went back to my old way of training. I never tried another switch. The cost in time of dedicating four months to changing methods was not worth the mental anguish when the training did not build the confidence to go with the physical improvement. I was able to run a comfortable 3:03 marathon as a tempo run, but did not believe the reserves where there like I did the year before.

                       

                      Changing training systems takes a lot of time and you have no guarantee the course will be the same, the weather will be the same, or if breakfast will stay down as it did the year before.

                       

                      Other than a few elite level runners or NCAA distance people I have never met anyone who abandoned however they were training and tried a new system or method. It is a time-costly endeavor for a recreational hobby.

                       

                      I don't do fads, don't do Cross Fit. I have always used some form of barefoot or lightweight shoes once a week, but that started in '84 (19', not 18') when I started running.  It took about two years to find the level of intensity, the mileage, and the diet that let me run the way I wanted.

                        The biggest change I've made in the 6 months to improve my running has not involved training, fueling, diet, etc. at all.  It was dedicating the time to do core and glute/hip strengthening/stretching exercises on a regular basis.  I'm still not doing them as often as I should, but even the minimal weekly exercises have helped.  What I used to think was my legs being tired from tough workouts and long runs turned out to be tight hips and weak glutes.  I hasn't made a huge performance difference but has helped prevent the chronic hamstring injuries I used to get as well as make regular training runs pain free.  That alone is worth it.


                        HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                          Backup ipad, in case yours gets ruined by water, to avoid interrupting your twitter feed.

                          It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                          HoosierDaddy


                            The biggest change I've made in the 6 months to improve my running has not involved training, fueling, diet, etc. at all.  It was dedicating the time to do core and glute/hip strengthening/stretching exercises on a regular basis.  I'm still not doing them as often as I should, but even the minimal weekly exercises have helped.  What I used to think was my legs being tired from tough workouts and long runs turned out to be tight hips and weak glutes.  I hasn't made a huge performance difference but has helped prevent the chronic hamstring injuries I used to get as well as make regular training runs pain free.  That alone is worth it.

                             

                            What glute things do you do?  Core is helping but I am having hamstring issues that I am thinking are due to compensation for other  muscles (incl. glutes).  Thx

                               

                              What glute things do you do?  Core is helping but I am having hamstring issues that I am thinking are due to compensation for other  muscles (incl. glutes).  Thx

                               

                              Here is my basic workout routine:

                              3 x 15 back raises 
                              3 x 15 obliques (each side) 
                              3 x 15 incline crunch 
                              3 x 15 hip adductors 
                              3 x 15 hip abductors 
                              3 x 15 lat pull down 
                              3 x 15 lunges 
                              2 x 15 reverse lunges (they are usually toast by then)

                               

                              Back raises and obliques are on a incline bench that you lock your feet into and I use 10 lb weight.  This really helped loosed my lower back and relieve pressure from my hamstrings.  Also, started doing a few stretches to loosen up the hips from here.

                               

                              MTA - I did the lunges with 15 lb weights in each hand.  I  used to do them without weights but it was not helping with the hamstrings.  YMMV and you may be able to handle more than 15 lbs.

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