Ultra Runners

1

50 Mile Fueling (Read 516 times)

    I'm doing my first 50 tomorrow...

     

    So, in 100's, I subsist on basically no solid food, just gels, Sustained Energy, and water. It works great for me.

     

    In the 50, though, should I focus on just gels and minimal solid foods? Or, keep the same plan as 100's?

     

    I'm not sure how my stomach will handle the Sustained Energy at 50 mile pace, because, like an idiot, I haven't trained at that pace with it.

      When racing 50's, I usually just do gels (2-3 per hour), heed, and a handful of snacks found at the aid stations like pretzels, cookies, etc.  During training runs I experimented with power bars and other higher calorie but denser food sources and for what ever reason it seemed like it took more energy to eat than was worth it.  Sometimes I even felt winded after eating a power bar.  Never tried sustained energy or perpetuem but I would guess if it is dense it would not work well for me.  YMMV.

      DoppleBock


        Good luck on the 50 - I have no issues using gels and Sustained Energy or Endurox only in a 50 miler.  My plan for an up coming 50 is to get Endurox at the aide stations (7) and take 1-2 gels between aide stations.  I should be done in 8 hours, give or take a few minutes. 

         

        I'm doing my first 50 tomorrow...

         

        So, in 100's, I subsist on basically no solid food, just gels, Sustained Energy, and water. It works great for me.

         

        In the 50, though, should I focus on just gels and minimal solid foods? Or, keep the same plan as 100's?

         

        I'm not sure how my stomach will handle the Sustained Energy at 50 mile pace, because, like an idiot, I haven't trained at that pace with it.

        http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

        2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

         

          Good luck on the 50 - I have no issues using gels and Sustained Energy or Endurox only in a 50 miler.  My plan for an up coming 50 is to get Endurox at the aide stations (7) and take 1-2 gels between aide stations.  I should be done in 8 hours, give or take a few minutes. 

           

          That's kind of what I'm shooting for... I've been torn exactly how to handle it. 

           

          I think I'm going to start with my handheld only, try to get on mostly gels, and supplement with Sustained Energy at aid stations,

           

          Weather looks like it will cooperate for a quick run, so I'm going to see if I can run it hard.

          xor


            My fast 50 milers (8-9:30 hours) have been w/ perpetuem and gel+water.  A bit of light grazing at aid stations and probably coke when I found it. Not because I needed it, but because I like it.

             

            My slow 50 milers (10-13 hours) have involved a lot more aid station grazing.  pbjs and whatnot.  And chews/chomps instead of gu.

             

            The difference between slow and fast - the courses.

             

            Anyway, I'm fine with Perpetuem (and probably SE, but I haven't had it in years) while trying to run at a fast-ish pace... if I mix it thin.  And I don't poop out during these races on liquid calories and gel.

             

            But when I'm moving slower and doing lots of climbing, I need more solid food. 

             

            FWIW, my gu tolerance is right around the 10 hour mark.  Doesn't matter about fast or slow, I just can't eat it anymore.  Lucky for me, I don't count to 100.

             


            Feeling the growl again

              I did a gel every 20 minutes, taking Gatorade if I hit a water stop off-cycle with the gels (never mixed Gatorade and gels), and a couple Mtn Dews thrown in there.  While I dropped at 37 miles with muscle issues, from an energy standpoint, I felt outstanding.  The only stomach issues I had were I had a couple oatmeal cream pies at my turnaround drop bag, and while I was taking in the Gus like a champ the minute that oatmeal cream pie hit my stomach it started heaving.  So I heaved the rest of it.  Smile

              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

               


              I'm back!

                I did a gel every 20 minutes, taking Gatorade if I hit a water stop off-cycle with the gels (never mixed Gatorade and gels), and a couple Mtn Dews thrown in there.  While I dropped at 37 miles with muscle issues, from an energy standpoint, I felt outstanding.  

                 

                That's basically what your favorite author, Mr. Noakes, recommends: 600ml water + 60g carbs per hour, which works out to about a gel every 20 minutes. I've been doing that the past several races, marathon to 50M -- carry a gel flask, consume half a gel + 1/6th of a 20 oz bottle (about 100ml) every 10 minutes. It seems to have worked well. The only thing I haven't tried is doing this at marathon race pace; I'll try that at CIM. For previous goal marathons I've always made do with Gatorade or whatever was on the course, but I think I will get more carbs this way.

                 

                The one issue I've had is that I can't seem to avoid getting my hands and anything I touch totally sticky with gel by the end of the race. The most natural thing is, after I suck down half a gel, slam the flask top back down with my hand. But that gets gel on my hand, which you really can't get off. Any other way of closing the flask just seems more inefficient.

                 

                Oh, the other thing Noakes recommends that I've been doing is to start the race with 400ml water + 40g carbs in your stomach, because the rate fluid drains from your stomach is proportional to the volume in your stomach. So in principle, this will start delivering the 10g carbs / 10 min to your muscles pretty much immediately.

                jjameson


                  My last 50 miler I took in about 1800 calories in 9 hours.  Not enough.  I do good the first 4-5 hours (300+ calories) but then I get a queasy stomach and it gets harder and harder for me to get down anything.  Mostly just fluids the last 4 hours.

                   

                  One other thing that happens to me is I ALWAYS get muscle spasms and cramps after 30 miles.  It starts in my calf and lower leg muscles and they start by feeling "twitchy" with little spasms.  Eventually it will get worse and worse to the point where some little thing, say lifting my leg over a downed tree or a stumble, and my whole leg will go into spasm and it is agony. I've since learned that taking 3 salt tablets when I feel the "twitchy" feeling abates it.  Not sure why, especially with all that Noakes writes.  But I've had it happen enough that I know salt helps it, and takes it away within 5 - 10 minutes of consumming salt.  

                   

                   


                  I'm back!

                    My last 50 miler I took in about 1800 calories in 9 hours.  Not enough.  I do good the first 4-5 hours (300+ calories) but then I get a queasy stomach and it gets harder and harder for me to get down anything.  Mostly just fluids the last 4 hours.

                     

                    One other thing that happens to me is I ALWAYS get muscle spasms and cramps after 30 miles.  It starts in my calf and lower leg muscles and they start by feeling "twitchy" with little spasms.  Eventually it will get worse and worse to the point where some little thing, say lifting my leg over a downed tree or a stumble, and my whole leg will go into spasm and it is agony. I've since learned that taking 3 salt tablets when I feel the "twitchy" feeling abates it.  Not sure why, especially with all that Noakes writes.  But I've had it happen enough that I know salt helps it, and takes it away within 5 - 10 minutes of consumming salt.  

                     

                    You might be consuming 300+ calories per hour the first 4-5 hours, but absorbing that much is a tall order. Noakes claims that only about 60g (~240cal) can usefully be absorbed per hour. If you are pumping it in faster than you can absorb it, that might explain the queasiness.

                     

                    Re salt... this makes interesting reading.

                    Waterlogged Part II: Trials, Questions, and Suggestions Regarding Hydration and Ultramarathons

                       

                      One other thing that happens to me is I ALWAYS get muscle spasms and cramps after 30 miles.  It starts in my calf and lower leg muscles and they start by feeling "twitchy" with little spasms.  Eventually it will get worse and worse to the point where some little thing, say lifting my leg over a downed tree or a stumble, and my whole leg will go into spasm and it is agony. I've since learned that taking 3 salt tablets when I feel the "twitchy" feeling abates it.  Not sure why, especially with all that Noakes writes.  But I've had it happen enough that I know salt helps it, and takes it away within 5 - 10 minutes of consumming salt.  

                       

                      You pretty much hit on the head what I go through most races that are the marathon distance or longer. I would say it happens during the last quarter of the race or maybe even closer to the last 5th.  When I was first racing marathons I thought this was part of "hitting the wall", but over time I've realized it seems to be associated with the level of effort and is much different than the "wall" newbie runners hit.  I think I'm going to bring some salt tabs with me for my marathon on Sunday and pop them around mile 20.  I'll keep fingers crossed for no cramps.

                      DoppleBock


                        And .... 

                         

                        I'm doing my first 50 tomorrow...

                         

                        So, in 100's, I subsist on basically no solid food, just gels, Sustained Energy, and water. It works great for me.

                         

                        In the 50, though, should I focus on just gels and minimal solid foods? Or, keep the same plan as 100's?

                         

                        I'm not sure how my stomach will handle the Sustained Energy at 50 mile pace, because, like an idiot, I haven't trained at that pace with it.

                        http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                        2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                         

                          So I tried the ~240 calories per hour fueling strategy, plus mixed in salt tabs at mile 19 to see if it helped with cramps.  I did two gels per hour plus 2-3 cups of powerade.  It was the classic scenario where I cramp- went out way too fast and tried to hold on.  At mile 19 when legs were starting to get tingly/tight I popped two salt tabs.  Didn't cramp up at all.  I don't know if it was the salt, fueling, or none of the above, but it has at least given me one statistic on which to start building a conclusion.


                          Feeling the growl again

                            So I tried the ~240 calories per hour fueling strategy, plus mixed in salt tabs at mile 19 to see if it helped with cramps.  I did two gels per hour plus 2-3 cups of powerade.  It was the classic scenario where I cramp- went out way too fast and tried to hold on.  At mile 19 when legs were starting to get tingly/tight I popped two salt tabs.  Didn't cramp up at all.  I don't know if it was the salt, fueling, or none of the above, but it has at least given me one statistic on which to start building a conclusion.

                             

                            It doesn't matter if it could have been rubbing the lucky rabbit's foot at the 17.65 mile mark; just keep doing it as long as it is working for you!

                            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand