Ultra Runners

1

Need some ideas (Read 77 times)

C-R


    Just registered for DWD 50 mile in May. First 50 miler. Only other long race I managed was HUFF a couple of years past.

     

    I have a couple of questions for the brain trust here since this is new territory for me. I will set this up with my goal being to finish in under 9:30. I'm not racing but I would like to give it a fair effort. I'm planning to run between 50-65 mpw headed in as I have a goal marathon in April where I plan to get a new PR. After that I can ramp up or make changes for DWD but it only gives me a month.

     

    So my big questions are:

    1) What is a fueling/hydration strategy? For racing marathons my optimal is one gel every 30 minutes plus small water at each aid station.

    2) What type of food and nourishment?

    3) Anyone who has run this one before - do I need to have drop bags?

    4) What can I do in the month preceding to help increase my chances of success

     

    What else should I be asking that I don't know about running more that 50k?

     

    I'm looking forward to dipping a toe in the longer distances. Thanks.


    "He conquers who endures" - Persius
    "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel


    Ostrich runner

      Expect this course to be a bit slower than Tecumseh. When I did it, the first mile was exceptionally muddy and straight up an old ski slope. The mud wasn't bad after that, but I'd bet that the first mile took me at least 15 minutes. 9:30 I'd think is possible for you if you got in the best shape you've been, but remember that is also doing about what you've done at Tecumseh twice in a row. They aren't really long, but there are a couple sections where they take you off trail, and that slows things down a bit too. I think there was a place to drop bags, but I didn't do it. Aid stations were well stocked, and there were a couple water drops that had just jugs of water sitting next to the trail. They're good, but they won't always come at times that you need them. You'll want a way to carry water and some of your own fuel. I know a few people who've taken wrong turns on this course and I've seen park visitors taking down race markers. I'm going to run at the park a couple times to make sure I have a reasonable idea of where I'm supposed to be and when. 

      http://www.runningahead.com/groups/Indy/forum

      C-R


        Thanks beef. Seems a tad aggressive then. Well let's throw out the time goal since Tecumseh kicked my butt several times.

         

        Good point on carrying water. I've never done that so I guess I better practice. This isn't an ITR event right? So there likely won't be any prep runs like Tecumseh?


        "He conquers who endures" - Persius
        "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

          For fueling one gel every 30 minutes should work fine.  For hydration I usually drink to thirst and take a salt tab every couple hours or so.  I may take more salt if it's really hot out.  The most important thing is knowing the aid station setup and whether you can get away with carrying minimal fuel/drink or you need to carry all your supplies with you.  You shouldn't need to consume anything other than gels for a sub 10 hour 50 mile race.

           

          Regarding drop bags, that depends on aid station setup, weather etc.  More often than not the only thing I end up using my drop bag for is to throw of extra clothing as the day warms up.  I usually have extra gels, socks, body glide, salt, clothing, etc. in a drop bag but rarely need them unless there are very few aid stations.  Not sure about DWD Gnaw Bone (I'm assuming this is the race you are doing) but with DWD Devils lake I probably would have needed one for the 50 mile for fuel at least.

           

          What else to do the months preceding?  Run longer distances for your weekend long run.  Lots of hill training and some decent time out on the trails.  Personally, I wouldn't recommend doing your first 50 a month after a goal marathon.  Sure it can be done, but if it were me I would probably end up going into the race less focused than I need to be to complete the distance.  Those last 15 miles will be nothing like what you've experienced before in terms of pain and fatigue.

          TripleBock


            Gnaw Bone - Nice

             

            How far is this from your house?

             

            I would try and get a couple of 3-5 hour trail runs in before the race.  Don't run 3-5 hours as fast as you think you can do 3-5 hours.  Do 3-5 hours at a pace you think you can hold for 50 miles.  Then at the end ask yourself if you feel like you could keep going that long.  Some race distances have always made sense to me and I pace then well = 5M, 10k, Marathon and 50 mile.  I suck at pacing 5k, 1/2 Marathon and 50k's.

             

            Pacing will be your biggest hurdle ~ Not only overall effort level, but your effort level on uphills, flats and downhills all make a difference.  If you kill your quads you are in for pain and misery, so my biggest piece of advice for your 1st 50M is to take it easy on the downhills.  Also for your 1st one, it should not start feeling "Hard" until 35 miles.

             

            9.5 hours is doable, but I do not know the course.

             

            Nutrition - Personally I would come up with a plan for 300 calories per hour.  Something different works for everyone.  I have done gels, gels and hammer or endurox products, I have done gels and aide station food.  I would also think through how much liquid you want to take depending on temperature of the day.

             

            Drop bags?  Not sure, if you do not mind waiting around for them, they cannot hurt.  I have not used them if I am really serious, but I have if I am not.

             

            I am on waiting list for Ice Age 50M, but if I do not get in, I might join you.

            I am fuller bodied than Dopplebock


            Ostrich runner

              Thanks beef. Seems a tad aggressive then. Well let's throw out the time goal since Tecumseh kicked my butt several times.

               

              Good point on carrying water. I've never done that so I guess I better practice. This isn't an ITR event right? So there likely won't be any prep runs like Tecumseh?

               

              Tecumseh isn't really an ITR event either, but so many people do it that the training runs have become popular. I'm sure it won't be difficult to get a few people together to have one for DWD.

              http://www.runningahead.com/groups/Indy/forum

              C-R


                Yeah. I'd like that as I don't fancy not knowing any of the course.

                 

                Tecumseh isn't really an ITR event either, but so many people do it that the training runs have become popular. I'm sure it won't be difficult to get a few people together to have one for DWD.


                "He conquers who endures" - Persius
                "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

                prideandjoy5


                  I am considering doing the Gnaw Bone also this May.  I am not 100% sure as of yet, but will see.  I am running the Winter Trail Marathon at Eagle Creek Park on 25 Jan.  It will be my first full marathon on trails, so I plan on seeing how it goes and decide from there.  I am looking forward to longer distances though.

                   

                  These are exactly the questions I have too.  I will be following this topic closely.

                  C-R


                    You people are a bad influence. I found a 6/12/24 in South Bend (genuflects) in October and the thought actually crossed my mind.

                     

                    Good Lord. Just get me through this 50.


                    "He conquers who endures" - Persius
                    "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel

                    TripleBock


                      Craig Redfern is really familiar with that race - If you want to know details, I could give his contact.

                       

                      Don't get your undies in a bundle over a 6 hour race ~ It would be easier than the 50M and a nice way to dip your toes in the water of timed races.

                       

                      I am doing my 1st trail run of 2014 tomorrow morning - Not sure how far ... trail conditions and my wussiness will dictate that.  But I was hoping for 4-5 hours ... 3 at least.  My fat-ass on snowy trails probably can barely cover 5 milers per hour if that.

                       

                      You could do this race as a training run

                       

                      http://secondwindrunningclub.org/races/clinton

                       

                      Clinton Lakes 30 miler.  I did it last year ... it was a good race ... 2.5 - 3 hours away from you.

                      I am fuller bodied than Dopplebock

                      TripleBock


                        PS - I would start now 1 day of hills every week.

                         

                        I am doing them on TM each week right now until I can move outside.  I actually do them on the day after a speed or hard day.

                         

                        I am running 6 minutes easy, then running 2 minutes @ 4-6% inclince and then walking 2 minutes @ 8-12% inclide.  Repeat 4-6 times.  This is not a hard workout at all, I am just trying to get my legs used to hills.  I will build the tme and incline% if I do not get outside soon.

                        I am fuller bodied than Dopplebock

                        C-R


                          I've been doing those on the treadmill too since we don't have hills here in flat world. 4% for 2 minutes but I'm doing these between 8:30 and 7:40 pace. Not that I will be running those in DWD but more strength training for the marathon on April 12.

                           

                          Right now I am doing these on 6 to 7 mile runs but will incorporate these into my weekend long runs.

                           

                          That looks like an interesting training run..


                          "He conquers who endures" - Persius
                          "Every workout should have a purpose. Every purpose should link back to achieving a training objective." - Spaniel