Ultra Runners

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5wks to train for 100k (Read 425 times)


Marquess of Utopia

    I'm looking at two options for my training. I'm just adding volume now (I just got over an injury that lasted for over 2 months).

     

    Option 1
    wk5: 12-10-16-9-10-22-8 = 87
    wk4: 13-10-16-10-10-24-8 = 91
    wk3: 14-12-16-12-10-26-8 = 98
    wk2: 14-12-16-12-12-28-12 = 104
    wk1: 14-14-16-14-14-16-12 = 100
    wk0: 12-12-8-6-3-64-0

    Option 2
    wk5: 12-10-16-9-10-22-8 = 87
    wk4: 13-12-16-10-10-22-12 = 94
    wk3: 14-12-16-10-10-22-16 = 99
    wk2: 14-12-16-12-12-26-16 = 107
    wk1: 14-14-16-14-14-16-12 = 100
    wk0: 12-12-8-6-3-64-0

     

    I don't know if back to back longish days (20+ and 16) would be that much more beneficial for a 100k or if I should go for a 28 mile run with more recovery the next day.


    A Sweetheart

       

       

      I don't know if back to back longish days (20+ and 16) would be that much more beneficial for a 100k or if I should go for a 28 mile run with more recovery the next day.

       

      I think it would be beneficial.  A few people don't do back to backs (DoppleBock), but most people find them useful.

       

      Truthfully, If you were to keep the weekly mileage the same, I would take one day super-duper easy (like a Monday) and do a tiny shake-out, and make some of your long runs longer.  If it isn't going to bother your injury, don't be worried about throwing in a run in the low 30's three weeks out.  It is ok to take this slower.  You are so damn speedy that your long runs are pretty short on time on your feet.   You may want to consider doing your long run based on time not mileage.  

       

      MTA:  This is all healthy person advice.  Don't do anything that is going to hurt you.  Duh.  Smile

      I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

      DoppleBock


        The 31 and 40 have nothing to do with speed - It is to tough your aerobic strength - Hard.  They can be run slowly.  For me it takes 3-4 weeks for a really long aerobic effort to give me a boost in training / racing.  After the 20 - 10 days out you might as well taper the extra mileage isn't doing too much for you.

         

        I put an easy day before and after the long runs.  I would do Week #4 20 miler with some pace in the last 8-10 miles and week # 2 22 miler with some pace in the last 6-10 miles.  The 20 miler 10 days out is more of a steady state run.

         

        Stress and recover - I do the stress-stress - recover or stress-stress-stress - recover, but not the last 4 weeks before the goal race. 

         

        Just my 2-cents - But I would rather see those 2 longer runs slow - even if you ignore the rest of what I wrote.

         

        I'm looking at two options for my training. I'm just adding volume now (I just got over an injury that lasted for over 2 months).

         

        Option 1
        wk5: 12-10-16-9-10-22-8 = 87  .... 12-10-16-9-6-31-8 = 92
        wk4: 13-10-16-10-10-24-8 = 91 ... 13-10-16-10-10-20-8 = 87
        wk3: 14-12-16-12-10-26-8 = 98 ... 14-12-16-10-6-40-8 = 106
        wk2: 14-12-16-12-12-28-12 = 104 ... 14-12-16-12-12-22-12 = 100 
        wk1: 14-14-16-14-14-16-12 = 100 ... 14-8-20-8-16-6-12 = 84 
        wk0: 12-12-8-6-3-64-0 ........................ 12-8-6-5-3-64

        Option 2
        wk5: 12-10-16-9-10-22-8 = 87
        wk4: 13-12-16-10-10-22-12 = 94
        wk3: 14-12-16-10-10-22-16 = 99
        wk2: 14-12-16-12-12-26-16 = 107
        wk1: 14-14-16-14-14-16-12 = 100
        wk0: 12-12-8-6-3-64-0

         

        I don't know if back to back longish days (20+ and 16) would be that much more beneficial for a 100k or if I should go for a 28 mile run with more recovery the next day.

        http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

        2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

         


        Marquess of Utopia

          40! Wow...

          I'll go for 31 to 35. But I'll have to think about 40. When I'm sharpening for a marathon 21 - 24 miles is usually around 2hr - 2:30. My current runs are around 7min pace just to go easy on my lower legs. 4+ hours for a training run seems crazy, but I did sign up for a 100k race. The distance didn't hit me untill I broke up the distance: 250 x 400 meters or (Marathon) + (Marathon) + (1/2 marathon) = The race director said the race would be 64-65 or so miles.

           

          Thanks!

            Hijack - re: aerobic strength.  I ran 26 easy last week on trails, 23 the week before that, just time on my feet at a ridiculously slow pace.  At the end, I was physically pretty tired but OK, but oddly breathing very heavy.  I never really thought of long runs like this being aerobic training because you aren't even really working.  Am I really getting an aerobic benefit from these?  I'm hoping the answer is yes and that it can carry over into other parts of my running vs. just being good for slogging around in the woods. 

             

            DoppleBock


               35 is fine

               

              If I were going to try and run a 100k is 7 pace - I would be doing the 31+ mile runs @ 8 pace - Not race pace.

               

               

              40! Wow...

              I'll go for 31 to 35. But I'll have to think about 40. When I'm sharpening for a marathon 21 - 24 miles is usually around 2hr - 2:30. My current runs are around 7min pace just to go easy on my lower legs. 4+ hours for a training run seems crazy, but I did sign up for a 100k race. The distance didn't hit me untill I broke up the distance: 250 x 400 meters or (Marathon) + (Marathon) + (1/2 marathon) = The race director said the race would be 64-65 or so miles.

               

              Thanks!

              http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

              2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

               

              xor


                >> because you aren't even really working.

                 

                I'm gonna say you maybe were.  Unless you were up at like 8000, comin 'round the mountain.

                 

                Trail running is much harder on me than road running, despite the common wisdom to the contrary, and I work harder at a slower pace.

                 

                DoppleBock


                  I assume you are aware of the qualification standard for making the US 100k team?

                   

                  http://www.usaultrarunning.com/100km-team/qualifying-for-the-team

                   

                  The list they have is for the WC 100k to be run on April 22nd.  So too late for this year - It has been harder to make the team each year - It used to be if you could run a sub 7:15 you were in.

                   

                  I think if my weight was at an optimum low and my fitness at an optimum high + I ran a perfect race on a perfect day - I might be able to run 6:45 pace for 100k (62.1371 miles) ~ 7 hours.

                   

                  The likelihood of those 4 factors being in perfection is too low to think about it.

                  http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                  2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                   

                  DoppleBock


                    Is this a trail race?

                     

                    THen you can substitute 4 hours for the 31 and 5 hours for the other long run.  Find a trail that is similar to the race you will do.

                    http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                    2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                     

                      I might have worded that poorly.  Trail running is much harder on me as well, overall physically, and I think that makes it good for me.  What I meant was that for most of these runs, it feels not that different than say hiking - physically taxing, but not in an out-of breath way.  Being out of breath running 10:30 pace after 25 miles sorta just surprised me. 

                       

                      The reason I'm asking is related to the whole "racing shorter distances" thread. I would like to spend the next 2-3 months rebuilding my base and also getting faster at some shorter things before contemplating a fall marathon.  But I also like doing the long trail runs and want to keep myself in a position to go back to that and improve (later) there as well.  I've been a bit worried that the trail running does nothing for the short distance goal - it's training my body to run slow and far and it's fun, but that it's not worth whatever time I may need to recover from the long runs.  But if I'm actually getting an added benefit of this not only not hindering my 5K training but potentially improving it, that would be fantastic. 

                       

                         

                       

                      DoppleBock


                        Trail running harder - I find it easier mentally.  If you break it down how hard to traverse a distance - Trail running is harder.  After that it depends on the trail.  I can make @ 6 MPH on the Ice Age trail in the North Kettle Moraine - It is moderately hilly and technical.  After 4-4.5 hours my feet hurt, my quads hurt, my ankles usually are a little sore ... But it is all a good satisfying tired / sore.  In those same 4-4.5 hours I would expect to run 31 miles on the roads or on a rail trail.  The rail trail is a bit uneven, so my ankles are still a little sore - But all other parts just tired.  On the road after 4-4.5 hours muscles are tired and joints hurt.

                         

                        But again mentally the easiest 4-4.5 hours to do is the technical trail - Physically the harderst and I get the least distance in that time.

                        http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                        2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                         

                          I agree with WG, shorten the distance on Monday or make it a double, also like DB says go up to 35 mile for your long run.  Week 1-0 out look a little heavy unless you don't plan to taper at all.

                           

                          I  am another of the few who don't do back to backs.  Maybe I should but especially with 2 kids under 5 and a wife who trains for marathons too, it is just easier to knock it out in one shot.  Plus, I think I learn something new about how my body reacts to fueling, hydration, weather, etc. during every  30+ mile run.

                            I've been a bit worried that the trail running does nothing for the short distance goal - it's training my body to run slow and far and it's fun, but that it's not worth whatever time I may need to recover from the long runs.  But if I'm actually getting an added benefit of this not only not hindering my 5K training but potentially improving it, that would be fantastic. 

                             

                            I'm on the fence about this myself.  I think it could help on distances of half marathon and beyond, but weeks of trail running with lots of long runs hasn't helped my base speed much.  An occasional 50K won't hurt, but trail running doesn't work as a substitute for speedwork...  Everyone may be different, but if you are not doing your speedwork as fast as before you introduced the really long runs, it means you are probably not recovering enough.


                            Marquess of Utopia

                              Is this a trail race?

                               

                              THen you can substitute 4 hours for the 31 and 5 hours for the other long run.  Find a trail that is similar to the race you will do.

                               

                              It's a gravel road race. Two water stops and one drop bag. http://wilderfootraces.wordpress.com/
                              I'm just running to finish. I'm going to start off very conservative; I do not want it to end in a death march because I went out too fast.

                              I've been looking for people to run with in the race but so far no takers. Let me know if you are interested. I'm sure the race director would love to have a few more 100k runners.

                              DoppleBock


                                I have a friend from out of town visiting + too close to my 24 hour race

                                 

                                I am a big sweat horse and need water every 20 miles - This would be cutting it pretty close

                                http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                                2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                                 

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