Ultra Runners

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100 Mile Advice (Read 817 times)

     

    Which one?

     

    This one. Should be hilly enough.


    I'm noboby, who are you?

       

      The longest I've done to this point is a 50k. I'll be doing another 50k in a couple of weeks. Both have a good amount of elevation change. Also for the hills, I do a hill loop near my house twice a week that has some steep short hills and some gradual longer hills.

      I was lazy in logging miles here on the site last year, but my weeks were typically 40 to 50 miles, with higher peaks thrown in when marathon training. I'm trying to get better at logging every day to be able to track things. Right now I'm running ~50 to 60 per week, and will peak in the 90's or low-100 when doing the longer long runs. I'm doing an average of 7 to 10 miles per day during the week, and then longer on the weekends.

      No idea what I'll need to finish a 100 or even do it in 24 hours. My plan is to run a lot, do the long run up to 50, and cross my fingers.

       

       

      I don't know what your pace time was for the 50k but to anticipating  90-100 a week is one hell of lot of miles just  to get under 24 for a 100 with only 12,000 feet of us and down. I'm average and race 20-21 hours with a max of 60 per week with a few long runs of 35-40 but they had 9,000 feet in them. You want to do a B2B 50/25?  If you survive those miles and get a good taper, your aiming at  18-19ish hours if you toss in some tempo work.

       

      I'm wondering if you are under-stating your desired  finish time or over thinking  the miles  miles to get under 24? 

       

      As a separate suggestion, I would step up to a 50 first and then shoot for the 100. You can lean of lot from a 50 that will apply to a 100.  A  50k is simply a long marathon and not the best lead-in for the 100. Is there some reason you are in a hurry?

         

         

        I don't know what your pace time was for the 50k but to anticipating  90-100 a week is one hell of lot of miles just  to get under 24 for a 100 with only 12,000 feet of us and down. I'm average and race 20-21 hours with a max of 60 per week with a few long runs of 35-40 but they had 9,000 feet in them. You want to do a B2B 50/25?  If you survive those miles and get a good taper, your aiming at  18-19ish hours if you toss in some tempo work.

         

        I'm wondering if you are under-stating your desired  finish time or over thinking  the miles  miles to get under 24? 

         

        As a separate suggestion, I would step up to a 50 first and then shoot for the 100. You can lean of lot from a 50 that will apply to a 100.  A  50k is simply a long marathon and not the best lead-in for the 100. Is there some reason you are in a hurry?

         

        I tend to run my best with strong mileage, but only if I run it easy (over 8:00 or 8:15 pace). So, probably 90% of my mileage is pretty easy, and I do no real speedwork right now. I'll be re-adding some tempo work in February. I do want to maintain some speed through the heavier mileage.

        I'm basing my desired finish time on my inexperience. I'd love to be in the 20 to 21 hour range, but my bigger fear is overestimating my ability to run past the 100k mark. I don't know, so I'd rather be conservative. My 50K was on a somewhat difficult course. I didn't have a great run, but I ran it in 5:14. I think I can go under 5:00 on the next 50k, but it's pretty hilly so we'll see. I'd be happy with anything under 5:30.

        I would do a 50-mile trail race, but I can't make it work with my travel schedule. As a substitute, I'm going to do a 44-mile race on roads, the Brew to Brew. It's not ideal, but it's the best I could do. I'm not trying to rush into it, but I've wanted to do one, and put it off last year. No time like the present.

           

          I tend to run my best with strong mileage, but only if I run it easy (over 8:00 or 8:15 pace).

           

          LOL... 8:00 is my tempo pace.

          Trent


          Good Bad & The Monkey

             

            This one. Should be hilly enough.

             

            Nice!  And free, dude! 

               

              Nice!  And free, dude! 

               

              The best kind of race!

              Trent


              Good Bad & The Monkey

                That is the same day as the 50k I am doing in L'ville.  I have to drop $50 for that one.


                I'm noboby, who are you?

                   

                  I tend to run my best with strong mileage, but only if I run it easy (over 8:00 or 8:15 pace). So, probably 90% of my mileage is pretty easy, and I do no real speedwork right now. I'll be re-adding some tempo work in February. I do want to maintain some speed through the heavier mileage.

                  I'm basing my desired finish time on my inexperience. I'd love to be in the 20 to 21 hour range, but my bigger fear is overestimating my ability to run past the 100k mark. I don't know, so I'd rather be conservative. My 50K was on a somewhat difficult course. I didn't have a great run, but I ran it in 5:14. I think I can go under 5:00 on the next 50k, but it's pretty hilly so we'll see. I'd be happy with anything under 5:30.

                  I would do a 50-mile trail race, but I can't make it work with my travel schedule. As a substitute, I'm going to do a 44-mile race on roads, the Brew to Brew. It's not ideal, but it's the best I could do. I'm not trying to rush into it, but I've wanted to do one, and put it off last year. No time like the present.

                   

                   

                  If you can survive the mileage then you will do just fine. I simply wanted to point out especially for those that have never done a 100, that mega miles is not necessary. It's more about quality of the miles not quantity.

                   

                  I'll give you some food for thought for race day. I pound this in to my newbie ultra friends for months before their first race - "find a pace that feels comfortable and then run slower."   With a good taper you will be wound up like prisoner on their yearly conjugal visit day. (A trashy but appropriate metaphor)

                   

                  The notion is to be very careful of pace from the first step. We have all experienced or heard about  mile 20-22 in the marathon where one's wheels fall off.  In the 50k it's that last 5-6 miles but it's not diabolical   In the hundred as you seem to understand, it's the last 30-40.  Any over-zealousness  in the first 60-70 miles can cause you hours and hours. I have been with many runners at mile 65 that finished 6-8 hours after me.They end up walking every inch of those last N miles.

                   

                  And don't forget to add some serious hiking as part of your training. Only the top 5% try to run every inch so you will probably power walk some sections. Power walking and running muscles slightly different animals and need to trained so you can hold a reasonable pace and not slow.

                   

                  Another topic you need to investigate is Na, Sodium or what we commonly call salt. In your long runs you will need to learn about your salt needs plus eating and drinking. The longer race the more these variables become vital.

                   

                  Good luck.

                   

                   

                     

                     

                    If you can survive the mileage then you will do just fine. I simply wanted to point out especially for those that have never done a 100, that mega miles is not necessary. It's more about quality of the miles not quantity.

                     

                    I'll give you some food for thought for race day. I pound this in to my newbie ultra friends for months before their first race - "find a pace that feels comfortable and then run slower."   With a good taper you will be wound up like prisoner on their yearly conjugal visit day. (A trashy but appropriate metaphor)

                     

                    The notion is to be very careful of pace from the first step. We have all experienced or heard about  mile 20-22 in the marathon where one's wheels fall off.  In the 50k it's that last 5-6 miles but it's not diabolical   In the hundred as you seem to understand, it's the last 30-40.  Any over-zealousness  in the first 60-70 miles can cause you hours and hours. I have been with many runners at mile 65 that finished 6-8 hours after me.They end up walking every inch of those last N miles.

                     

                    And don't forget to add some serious hiking as part of your training. Only the top 5% try to run every inch so you will probably power walk some sections. Power walking and running muscles slightly different animals and need to trained so you can hold a reasonable pace and not slow.

                     

                    Another topic you need to investigate is Na, Sodium or what we commonly call salt. In your long runs you will need to learn about your salt needs plus eating and drinking. The longer race the more these variables become vital.

                     

                    Good luck.

                     

                     

                     

                    I feel very confident that I can do the mileage... my main concern is nutrition. I really need to figure this out, as it has caused me issues in the past.  I guess it will just involve experimentation...

                    Thanks for the advice. I'll try the power walking some trails... that's a good tip. And pace, I'm hoping the 55/45 concept someone mentioned is close.


                    I'm noboby, who are you?

                       

                      I feel very confident that I can do the mileage... my main concern is nutrition. I really need to figure this out, as it has caused me issues in the past.  I guess it will just involve experimentation...

                      Thanks for the advice. I'll try the power walking some trails... that's a good tip. And pace, I'm hoping the 55/45 concept someone mentioned is close.

                       

                       

                      Please note that nutrition is really the combination of food,drink and salt. For instance, too little or too much salt and your stomach does not empty and to over simplify you feel bloated, can barf, and it's all downhill. There are other permutations but they involve all three.

                       

                      FWIW, IMO running long every week is too much for most mortals. I prefer a single long run over a B2B - more specific to race day. OTOH, on the alternate week I do less over all with  serious hike on Sunday.  I have a 2,500 over 5 miles that hike up and run down. The down is addition quad training and the hike prepares me well for race day.In essence hard easy weekends with hiking covered.

                       

                      As with any advice - feel free to use all, some or none.

                        1. If you're using the A/S food (and not your own), bring a small plastic bag/baggie.  Give a volunteer your bottles/pack to refill and while they are doing that, go thru quickly, dropping what you want into the plastic bag.  Walk out of the A/S and eat while walking.  Walking 3mph and eating is better than sitting or standing at 0mph and eating.


                        This is some of the best advice I have seen or read anywhere...thanks.

                          A little trick I have learnt in lap/circuit races is to calculate the amount of time it will take me per lap ( assume 1 hour = ~300 calories absorption). I then prepare a series of self-seal plastic sandwich bags full of goodies including fruit, gels, cereal bars with that amount of calories inside them. I am then "forced" to eat that amount for that lap/circuit instead of guessing.

                          It has the other benefit of allowing you to take your rubbish with you and not have to pocket sticky carb gel packets in your pocket

                          Jerry
                          A runners blog-updated daily


                          Ultrachick

                            Some good advice here and as you probably know there's no one way train for 100 miler. I prefer the mega miles myself however I've spent the past 4 or so years building them up. Bouncing from 50-60 miles/week one year, 60-70 the next and so on. This year should be 80-90 but life has been a bit busy and I also bumped up to one 100 miler to two this year. So my schedule has been build, build, build, race, recover, and start building again. I ran the VT100 in July and next up is Virgil Crest in September.


                            I do BTB long runs on the weekends and I would also strongly suggest doing a 50m first. You will learn a lot and it will help your body adapt to that stress. Beware the chair is good and have a crew to help you through the aid stations-lots of time can be lost there fumbling with drop bags. Have a pacer too to help into the night. Train for the downhills is key! Practice your speed hiking up and run down-find the longest trail or dirt road possible. I live in VT and Mt Mansfield (tallest mtn here) has a Toll Rd 4.5m long, I run/hike up and run down. Virgil Crest has 20,000' of up/down, I don't want to be slowed by shot quads. VT100 had 14,000' and I've done Toll Rd runs this week and last and the quads feel good. Nutrition is important and definitely figure out your own sweat science so you don't cramp. Take into account how much sodium and electrolytes are in your drink and how much supplementation you'll need to do with s-caps and/or e-caps.


                            Try and do a 50m first. Shooting for a 100 without a good base could lead to a difficult and long recovery. I also recommend getting yourself into the weight room if you don't do any or little strength training. Having a strong butt, core and upper body will help towards your success. I do legs too-even now-squats, lunges and calf raises at least once a week.  I beleive a strong glute medius will help ward off any IT band problems. Speaking from experience-my first 100 I walked the last 12m because my IT tightened so badly I couldn't bend my leg to even manage some sort of shuffle. A year's worth of single leg squats, clam shells and side leg lifts and the next year not a peep and I cut an hour off of my time and broke 24.


                            I will plug myself in that I'm a certified personal trainer and running coach-get in touch if you have any other questions or would like my help.


                            Good luck! Kelly 


                                

                            If you never go fast, you'll never go fast.
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