Ultra Runners

1

two long runs left before 50k, looking for advice (Read 54 times)

    I am running the Cheaha 50k, Feb 23rd, and I think it will take me at least 8 hours. So far I have two 5h runs, and five runs around 3h40, with all but one on the race course. I figure I can get in two more long runs. What I'd love some advice about is how long they should be (time wise) and should I be choosing routes that I can run faster (ie cover more distance in allotted time) or go for the more technical and steep trails? Or does it even matter. Either way they will be mostly on the race course.

     

    So, any suggestions for my last two long runs? Will going for more than 5 hours be useful?

    One more question. I love my Montrail Mountain Masochists but Sunday the creeks were all high and my MMM apparently think they are sponges. My feet didn't mind, but I could definitely feel the extra weight while running uphill. Anyone know of a similar shoe that drains better?

    Mt Cheaha 50k 2/23/2013:  7:34 :D

    Lake Martin 50; 27 miles: 5:29:07

    Run For Kids 50k, Birmingham, 5/4/2013: 6:26:33 Woot!


    Uh oh... now what?

      Two-week taper or three-week taper?

      If me...
      26 Jan -- long/varied effort/ on trails similar to race if possible
      02 Feb -- long/varied effort/ on trails similar to race if possible
      09 Feb -- med/easy -- not more than three hours
      11 Feb -- short/easy -- not more than 10
      23 Feb -- 50k

      I wear Cascadia (5, 6, 7, or PureGrit) or Saucony Peregrine ... live in a rainy place, kind of late to be changing shoes

        I am planning a two week taper I think, see how that works for me.

         

        Your plan is about what I was thinking. But I'm not sure what you mean by varied effort. I usually try to stick to an easyish effort level so I am slowing a fair bit going up and picking up the pace going down (very little of the course is flat).  Despite this, I am definitely putting out more effort on the ups. Is that what you mean? Or did you mean having some deliberately harder run sections?

         

        And how long would long be? Any reason to go out for the whole 8 hours before the race?

         

        About the shoes. I actually have a pair of Peregrines that I like, I'll have to try them out wet. I don't try to avoid getting wet... it's just oddly not happened much lately. I'm not really looking for new shoes for February, more for after.

        Mt Cheaha 50k 2/23/2013:  7:34 :D

        Lake Martin 50; 27 miles: 5:29:07

        Run For Kids 50k, Birmingham, 5/4/2013: 6:26:33 Woot!


        Refurbished Hip

          I ran for 15 hours with wet MMMs through mud and creeks and rain.  If they work for you dry, I wouldn't go trying to find new shoes now.  They drain pretty quickly for me.  What kind of socks are you wearing?

             What kind of socks are you wearing?

             

            Fairly thick smartwool socks... maybe they are the problem. Or, now that I think about it, maybe my legs were just tired that day.

            Mt Cheaha 50k 2/23/2013:  7:34 :D

            Lake Martin 50; 27 miles: 5:29:07

            Run For Kids 50k, Birmingham, 5/4/2013: 6:26:33 Woot!


            Uh oh... now what?

              I am planning a two week taper I think, see how that works for me.

               

              Your plan is about what I was thinking. But I'm not sure what you mean by varied effort. I usually try to stick to an easyish effort level so I am slowing a fair bit going up and picking up the pace going down (very little of the course is flat).  Despite this, I am definitely putting out more effort on the ups. Is that what you mean? Or did you mean having some deliberately harder run sections?

               

              And how long would long be? Any reason to go out for the whole 8 hours before the race?

               

              About the shoes. I actually have a pair of Peregrines that I like, I'll have to try them out wet. I don't try to avoid getting wet... it's just oddly not happened much lately. I'm not really looking for new shoes for February, more for after.

              By varied effort I just refer to the horrible practice I have of varying effort during a run--playing with speed for a few hundred yards, run up a bit of a hill I would normally walk, sprint to the next big rock, run with high knee lift for thirty or forty steps, concentrate on holding your stomach in, pay attention to relaxing (wonderful oxymoron)--a lot of silly things to keep the run from being a mechanical chore.

               

              How long is a long run--for a 50k I think four hours is plenty, not that I have a four-hour loop, maybe use "four to five hours" as a gospel sort of etched in stone statement?

                That sounds like fun. Mostly I after a few miles I just sort of get into a grove and run easy, enjoying the scenery.

                 

                So I will absolutely rigidly stick to runs of somewhere around 4 to 5 hours Smile that is when my plan for the day actually works out. I don't have any four hour loops either lol. It would neat if there was a trail that changed length based on how fast I was moving so that my run would last the amount of time I want it to.

                Mt Cheaha 50k 2/23/2013:  7:34 :D

                Lake Martin 50; 27 miles: 5:29:07

                Run For Kids 50k, Birmingham, 5/4/2013: 6:26:33 Woot!

                  Do you do any kind of speedwork?  You may wish to consider adding a weekly speed workout.  There are two basic types:  a 30 minute tempo run on a non-technical trail at an effort level close to 10K racing, and 30 minutes of 1 minute hard/1 minute easy on whatever trail you like, especially a couple miles of steady uphill or a trail with a lot of undulation.  It only takes an hour (15 min w/u, 15 c/d) and it is still on trails.  5 hour workout may give you a lot of endurance but won't do anything for building speed that will help keep well ahead of cutoffs.

                   

                  Side note:  1 min hard, 1 min easy is one of my favorite summer time high altitude workouts.  In Santa Fe, drive to the Aspen Vista trail head, at 10,000'.  The trail is a 5.8 mile service road for the radio towers at the top of the ridge at 12,000'.  After warming up in the first mile to the crossing of Big Tesuque creek, 1 minute hard/1 easy begins, where hard is maybe 8 min/mile pace, and easy is powerhiking.  The intervals end at a convenient stopping point, 11,400', where the road makes a sharp bend and there is a nice overlook of the back side of the quad chairlift and Big Tesuque bowl.  Cooldown is an easy ~4 mile jog back to the trail head.  I have found this workout to be unbelievably stimulative for high altitude mountain running, critically, the ability to run steadily on minimal to moderate uphill grades at 9000'+.

                  2013 H1:  7 hours/week base.  Q3: Train for goal race.  Q4:  Goal Race.

                    I'm starting to play around a bit with some harder efforts. Last week I found a nice grassy hill and that takes me about 45s to run up at a little less than full speed. Jogging back down takes about 1:15. I wasn't sure how I'd feel the next day so I stopped after 6, feeling like I could have done the workout again.  And today I fartleked Smile (gotta love that word). I did some 10s sprints around switchbacks, and a bunch of 1-2 minute harder efforts, some uphill, some down. I have also done some hourish long faster runs but they tend to be more at the harder end of easy than really hard. So I guess you could say I am easing into a little speedwork. There is just so much information out there about speedwork (sometimes contradictory) it is a little overwhelming. Well that and I haven't raced much so I don't have a good feel for the various efforts.

                     

                    I like those two ideas though. I don't know what a 10k effort is but I can go and run hard for 30 mins, see how it goes and adjust my effort if needed the next time. And the 1 on 1 off sounds like a lot of fun.

                     

                    I think I have a good grasp on easy so it probably is about time to push a little harder. I am reasonably confident I can keep a decent cushion on the cutoffs, but I'd far rather not have to worry about them at all. Not that I am expecting to get much faster in the next month. That's more of a long term goal.

                    Mt Cheaha 50k 2/23/2013:  7:34 :D

                    Lake Martin 50; 27 miles: 5:29:07

                    Run For Kids 50k, Birmingham, 5/4/2013: 6:26:33 Woot!