Ultra Runners

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Falling (Read 490 times)

    Falling has been mentioned on the Leadville thread.  I don't want to derail it since I am far from thinking about contemplating the idea of considering Leadvile. 

     

    But I do want to ask: I have a really spaztic time on technical terrain, particularly over rocky areas during races. Lots of falling and ankle-turning.  

     

    I am sure the first point of advice is practice, practice, practice.  Any other advice? 

    "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus


    Consistently Slow

      Stop day dream. Every time I fall I am thinking about my race report.

      Run until the trail runs out.

      2014***1500 miles 09/28/14

      50miler 13:26:18

      Race Less Train More

       

      Ana Trason  "Living Her Life"

      "The Marble in The Groove"

       

      unsolicited chatter

      http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

        Relax while running, maybe being to focused is causing you to overcompensate.  Also, I find running at night gives you a different perspective on obstacles.  You are forced to react to what your feet feel rather than trying to prepare for every obstacle you see.  That works for me, but I am a fairly slow trail runner, so others may have better advice.


        You'll ruin your knees!

          Will definitely get better over time as your lower leg muscles acclimate to the contstant overload of feedback from the trail.  Know that in trail running you will fall, comes with the territory.  Something that has worked for me in the past is a balance board... strengthens the lower leg...

           

          We can go into a whole "whether or not to change your stride" discussion, but I will also say that I noticed over time that I did a couple of things without really thinking about it.  My stride got shorter and I was striking more up on my mid-foot/toes.  You are really talking about two different things... 1) falling and 2) turning ankles.  They may seem related, but to me, are not really.  With the turning ankle thing, the lower leg strength will really help.  Also, moving up more toward the front of your foot will help avoid the outside roll.  Not sure I can really explain it, but if you are heel striking, there seems to be more opportunity to roll out.  For falling, the shorter stride will help keeping you from being overly committed to any particular foot strike... think "quick feet". 

           

          Not sure any of that helps, but..., well..., practice, practice, practice.  One area on which to focus is the downhill... if you get to where you can really bomb a tech downhill, you fall less... but the fall will be waaaaay more catastrophic, so there is that...  

           

          Good luck with it!

           

          Lynn B

          ""...the truth that someday, you will go for your last run. But not today—today you got to run." - Matt Crownover (after Western States)

            Will definitely get better over time as your lower leg muscles acclimate to the contstant overload of feedback from the trail.  Know that in trail running you will fall, comes with the territory.  Something that has worked for me in the past is a balance board... strengthens the lower leg...

             

            We can go into a whole "whether or not to change your stride" discussion, but I will also say that I noticed over time that I did a couple of things without really thinking about it.  My stride got shorter and I was striking more up on my mid-foot/toes.  You are really talking about two different things... 1) falling and 2) turning ankles.  They may seem related, but to me, are not really.  With the turning ankle thing, the lower leg strength will really help.  Also, moving up more toward the front of your foot will help avoid the outside roll.  Not sure I can really explain it, but if you are heel striking, there seems to be more opportunity to roll out.  For falling, the shorter stride will help keeping you from being overly committed to any particular foot strike... think "quick feet". 

             

            Not sure any of that helps, but..., well..., practice, practice, practice.  One area on which to focus is the downhill... if you get to where you can really bomb a tech downhill, you fall less... but the fall will be waaaaay more catastrophic, so there is that...  

             

            Good luck with it!

             

            Lynn B

             

            Good stuff Lynn, thanks.  But what is a balance board and how do you use it for lower leg strengthening?

              Good stuff Lynn, thanks.  But what is a balance board and how do you use it for lower leg strengthening?

               

              I think he means one of these (aka wobble board):

               

              When I first started running, I turned a lot of ankles, whether on a trail or not. After some regular wobble board use, I've maybe turned my ankle once over a few years. The exercises mainly consist of wobbling in different directions. My favorite is to just stand on it and try not to let the edges touch the ground for as long as I can. It sits on the ground under my desk and I still occasionally stand on it during conference calls, etc.

              When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?

                Thanks very much guys!

                "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus


                On On

                  Nader,  Look around your area for some other trail runners and try to get out on the trails with them.  Maybe just some easy miles over varied terrain will allow you to just relax and allow you to follow your body (and not in a fall to the ground).

                   

                  All kidding aside, give me a call and let's get some miles together.  I do 95% of my miles off road.  See you Sunday.  Smile

                    Looking forward to it.

                    "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus

                      I have had a couple spectacular falls.

                       

                      One where I felt myself go and was able to do a Jackie Chan / Chuck Norris forward roll and pop right back up, to applause from other runners.

                      5 hours later, I fell and came down so hard I thought I broke my back. After I caught my breath, I realized no broken back, but did scratch it all to hell.

                       

                      Neither part of the course where I fell was terribly technical, I just let my attention wander.

                      xor


                        Yeah, I have spectacular falls several times a month.  And while some of them have been on gnarly trails, I seem to have a special knack for falling on the-crack-in-the-sidewalk too.  Bifocals.  I need.

                         

                        Here's great big fun I haven't figured out yet... I'm trying to learn how to run downhill on gnarly trails better.  Or at least a little faster.  This involves some measure of risk management and cojones that perhaps I do not possess. Though I am trying.  The scariest bit for me has been building up the head of steam just in time to realize "oh shit, that's a switchback coming up" and having to brake carefully so as not to yoips! over the end of the line.

                         

                        DoppleBock


                          So as a flatland pavement pusher - It always scared me in the 4 times I had been on a real trail (Superior Hiking Trail - Pacing 62 miles, Glacial 50M trail 2x and Ice Age 50M 1x) how often my ankles and others seem to turn and how often I stumbled.

                           

                          Last fall at the Glacial 50M I ran 10 miles of the most technical part of the trail with someone whose home trail is the Glacial 50M trail and he almost exclusively runs trails.

                           

                          I think I fell 4-5 times as we ran together - Mainly because I had a hard time talking or actively listening and paying attention. 

                           

                          What I did learn was priceless.  I would go up or down the hills (Even flat areas) actively trying to avoid the rocks and roots - Moving from side to side or really long steps, short steps.  This often put me in an ackward stride or off balance.  He (Scott) would just bomb down in the most direct line -

                           

                          Scott of course avoiding the absolutely most absurd obstacles - But he avoided 1 for every 10 I tried to avoid.  More often he just stepped right on top of the rock or root.  He did take a few long or short strides - But almost never weaved back and forth.

                           

                          Now I am running technical trail @ 1x per week and constantly working on that technique.  Take a direct line and go.  I often over compensate and run right over a bundle of roots next to a tree to hit the shortest line on the trail.  I have also found most medium to large rocks (Not 3+ foot high rocks) are often best navigated by stepping righ on them (Unless pointing or loose)

                           

                          The result is it is easier on my feet, knees, hips and I stumble less often.  I rarely twist an ankle.  By the end of a 4 hour run - the bottoms of my feet hurt much less.

                          http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                          2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                           

                          DoppleBock


                            Pick a line and let it fly ... Although I have one spot on the trail I have been running that I rarely make the corner ... so I might not let it fly if there was a cliff in the mix.

                             

                            I came down the last large hill with serveral drops and a fair amount of technical stuff out of control at Ice Age 50M this year.  I was meeting people still heading up the hill - I was bombing so fast that on 1 or 2 of the 3 foot drops with rocks in the landing area, I would bet I was 4-5 feet off the ground - It was crazy fun - semi dangerous fun.

                             

                             

                            Here's great big fun I haven't figured out yet... I'm trying to learn how to run downhill on gnarly trails better.  Or at least a little faster.  This involves some measure of risk management and cojones that perhaps I do not possess. Though I am trying.  The scariest bit for me has been building up the head of steam just in time to realize "oh shit, that's a switchback coming up" and having to brake carefully so as not to yoips! over the end of the line.

                            http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                            2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                             

                              Sort of a side note...but I saw the coolest balance board at my doctor's office a while back.  It had a maze routed into the top and you dropped a marble in it and had to navigate the maze.  Smile

                               

                              Sort of like this:

                                I think the key is to be cautiously reckless. I fall at the stupidest times... when there is a hardly a root around to trip me, but I can generally comfortably bomb technical downhills. I just figure worrying about falling will lead to falling and so I don't think about it. I also try to look out ahead a bit (instead of just the next step) and see the path I will take.

                                 

                                Some other downhill tips I've heard is to pretend you are a waterfall just flowing down the trail and take shorter strides keeping your knees soft/bent. Just more food for thought.

                                ~Sara
                                It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great. ~ Jimmy Dugan

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