Ultra Runners

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Best venue for 24 hour performance? (Read 612 times)

    Question: If one were seeking to a personal best for a 24 hour run, what are some considerations or preferences for choice of venue?

     

    - Surface: paved, dirt, track?

    - Length of loop?

     

    Any and all comments appreciated.

      Is there a list of existing active 24 hour runs?

       

      Also, I would be interested in anyone's personal favorite 24 hour events.

       

      Thanks again.

      Purdey


      Self anointed title

        I think the best performances have come on a track.

         

        I have only done one 12hr and one 24hr on the track - and found the uniform stride to be very tiring (ie you tend to use exactly the same muscles in exactly the same way stride after stride).  If I were to do one again I would inject a few "faster" bits to break it up.

         

         


        On On

          Question: If one were seeking to a personal best for a 24 hour run, what are some considerations or preferences for choice of venue?

           

          - Surface: paved, dirt, track?

          - Length of loop?

           

          Any and all comments appreciated.

           I would say this is a very unscientific study but try to figure out where the 12 people who just competed in France performed their qualify run.

           

          You know 6 (top 3 M and F) got automatic entry at Northcoast, but want about the other 6?  Mike Henze did it at FANS, Amy did it in AZ on New Years Eve.  It would take minimal research to figure it out. I believe it was listed on the papework for Brive Fr.

           

          Byron Lane (2008 Nat Champ) was just at 3 Days at the Fair and trying to hit the national standard for the 24 Hour run.  He ended up having GI issues and not getting the minimum 130 but he thought the course was definitely designed to be record worthy (the American Female Masters record was set in the 48 hour).

           

          I could see it being paved or track, short loops, having a crew in place to help you when needed.

           

          Are you looking at any particular races?

            I think the best performances have come on a track. 

             

            This is interesting to me. Since I've never witnessed a track ultra I don't know but my imagination thinks it would be monotonous. Although there are some very fine results out there that show it's not a bad venue.

             

            What about the added distance from having to run around fellow competitors? On the turns, if running in lane two, is the added distance significant over the course of xxx number of laps?

             

               I would say this is a very unscientific study but try to figure out where the 12 people who just competed in France performed their qualify run.

               

              You know 6 (top 3 M and F) got automatic entry at Northcoast, but want about the other 6?  Mike Henze did it at FANS, Amy did it in AZ on New Years Eve.  It would take minimal research to figure it out. I believe it was listed on the papework for Brive Fr.

               

              Byron Lane (2008 Nat Champ) was just at 3 Days at the Fair and trying to hit the national standard for the 24 Hour run.  He ended up having GI issues and not getting the minimum 130 but he thought the course was definitely designed to be record worthy (the American Female Masters record was set in the 48 hour).

               

              I could see it being paved or track, short loops, having a crew in place to help you when needed.

               

               

              Thanks Rick. Yes, I agree the comparisons are quite unscientific since conditions vary from venue to venue and from year to year.

               

              Northcoast is right in my backyard but I am not convinced the best venue is adjacent to an open body of water. Too exposed to wind and weather. Same goes for SF One Day under the Golden Gate Bridge. I would like a course more protected from the wind.

               

              Last summer, I ran a couple laps around Lake Nokomis (FANS) when i visited. I sort of liked the 2 mile loop but the concrete was a turn-off.

               

              I liked the distance of the Northcoast loop (0.9 mile) as convenient for frequency of aid.

               

              My only experience with a timed ultra is a 12-hour on a 1-mile loop.

               

                 

                Are you looking at any particular races?

                 

                I'm returning to school this fall and a solid 24 hour in the next couple years is unlikely, so in September I'm contemplating either Badgerland Striders or Northcoast 24.  Both small enough where it's nice to be able to make a week-of-race decision to enter.

                DoppleBock


                  Brive was a tough course - like a formula 1 course - 1 hairpin, 2 straigh aways and 11 other corners, gravel, sand, cobblestone a sharp little up and down a gradual little up and down - But the weather was perfect and the competition and reason why we were there unbeatable.

                   

                  Fans is a 2.4 mile loop with a big sloping concrete bridge, a small 15 ft steep hill a few grass sections, some concrete and some pavement.  Great group of people, but competition is light.

                   

                  NorthCoast - Has the 1 little sharpish hill but generally is a top notch course - It is much nicer than Brive, but how nice will depend on the number of entrants - Last year was nice - this year it might get a little tight is the numbers are up.

                   

                  A track ... I have no experience, but I believe it depends on how well the event is run.  I have heard of track events that let people walk laps with their runners and that could mean passing people 2-3 wide - maybe in lane #3.  Both FANS, NorthCoast and Brive had some very beautiful features - lakes or rivers etc to look at - I would worry about 16 cornes to the mile - If the event was top notch like Sri - I would consider it.

                   

                  Roots - I thought you would be at NorthCoast this year???

                  Long dead ... But my stench lingers !

                   

                   

                  DoppleBock


                    I would worry about likely weather way before I would worry about the course - Let me know if you go for Striders, I might be able to get down to support you.  I believe Wriggley Girl did striders last year - You should ask her about it.

                    Long dead ... But my stench lingers !

                     

                     

                      Further to what Purdey has said, I ran the same 12 hour race this year that he did last on a 400 metre track...totally different experience to what I have done before. The track is a flat, relentless surface, all over taking is done on the inside with slower runners/walkers being advised to run in lane 2, discipline does go out of the window in the latter stages.

                       

                      I have done 6 hour events that are circuits of the local park, but the problem with them is they are not flat and often on a slope and it ends up as a 6 hour fartlek on a 1000 metre loop...different discipline all together and did I say tough.

                       

                      In the 12 hour rack race we changed direction at 7 hours (long story why not 6 hours) and I really suffered when my IT Band cramped due to the stride and gait change....oooo I squealed like a little piggy when the sports med pulled that knot out allowing me to carry on.

                       

                      As for flat courses, come to England and try some of our canal races, flat as a pancake, little mental stimulus, you see a side of England that does not appear on post cards but fast especially when you can see the checkpoint 1 miles ahead.

                       

                      To sum up, I am not a great lover of totally flat.

                      Jerry
                      A runners blog-updated daily

                      jpdeaux


                        The Around the Lake 24 Hour in Wakefield, MA in July is a 5K loop around a lake (duh) with a couple of gradual ups and downs, some concrete sidewalks but some asphalt paths as well, and one short section of dirt and grass. So it's varying terrain, which could be a benefit toward a PR.

                         

                        There's a small aid station at the halfway mark and a larger one at the main area where the finish is. You can set up your own private area to visit every 3 miles. It's in the parking lot of a hotel which most runners stay at, so a shower and bed are not far away.

                         

                        The race has 4 components: a marathon, a 12 hour ultra, a 24 hour ultra, and a 24 hour team relay.

                         

                        I've done the marathon (2009- a PR) and the 24 Hour (2008, my first and only ultra, a so-so 58 miles which included a good night's sleep after the first 29 since I live nearby). Support is pretty good, as the teams generally have cheering sections. I'm toying with doing one of the ultras again this year.

                         

                        Last year they instituted chip timing with a chute instead of lap counters. This year they'll do the same, but with a common start for all runners. The marathon used to be 8 laps, plus an extra loop. It sounds like this year they will have a common start and have said that all runners will receive certified credit for completing a marathon on completing 26.2 miles, even if they keep going. They will also use the d-tag system and have live updates.

                         

                        Course record is something like 140 miles. It used to be that you had to complete a lap for it to count. They did not measure partial laps. Most likely that will remain, since it's a big lake and it seems like it would be too difficult to measure partial loops.

                         

                        They give out special awards to all runners completing 31 laps, or approx. 101 miles.

                         

                        http://www.srr.org/events/annual_events/24hour/2010/index.htm

                        TMorin


                          The Around the Lake 24 Hour in Wakefield, MA in July is a 5K loop around a lake (duh) with a couple of gradual ups and downs, some concrete sidewalks but some asphalt paths as well, and one short section of dirt and grass. So it's varying terrain, which could be a benefit toward a PR.

                           

                          There's a small aid station at the halfway mark and a larger one at the main area where the finish is. You can set up your own private area to visit every 3 miles. It's in the parking lot of a hotel which most runners stay at, so a shower and bed are not far away.

                           

                          The race has 4 components: a marathon, a 12 hour ultra, a 24 hour ultra, and a 24 hour team relay.

                           

                          I've done the marathon (2009- a PR) and the 24 Hour (2008, my first and only ultra, a so-so 58 miles which included a good night's sleep after the first 29 since I live nearby). Support is pretty good, as the teams generally have cheering sections. I'm toying with doing one of the ultras again this year.

                           

                          Last year they instituted chip timing with a chute instead of lap counters. This year they'll do the same, but with a common start for all runners. The marathon used to be 8 laps, plus an extra loop. It sounds like this year they will have a common start and have said that all runners will receive certified credit for completing a marathon on completing 26.2 miles, even if they keep going. They will also use the d-tag system and have live updates.

                           

                          Course record is something like 140 miles. It used to be that you had to complete a lap for it to count. They did not measure partial laps. Most likely that will remain, since it's a big lake and it seems like it would be too difficult to measure partial loops.

                           

                          They give out special awards to all runners completing 31 laps, or approx. 101 miles.

                           

                          http://www.srr.org/events/annual_events/24hour/2010/index.htm

                           

                          I'm in the club that puts this one on. I had a blast doing the relay last year and am on the fence about doing the relay or the 12 hour this year.


                          Kalsarikännit

                             

                             

                            I'm returning to school this fall and a solid 24 hour in the next couple years is unlikely, so in September I'm contemplating either Badgerland Striders or Northcoast 24.  Both small enough where it's nice to be able to make a week-of-race decision to enter.

                             

                            I would be careful about waiting too long on North Coast.  It has a limit of 200, and I believe it will fill long before September.  They haven't been updating their registration, so it is hard to say where they are at now.

                             

                            Badgerland was a nice event.  The RD puts on a few good races including Glacial Trail Run in Northern Kettle Moraine (10,550 ft of vertical over 50 miles!)  I would do it again if I wasn't doing North Coast.

                             

                            During the track 24's, I have found that shortening my stride in the corners, and legnthening it down the straight parts helps the legs out so that my gait isn't always the same.  It seems to work well for me.

                             

                            I only know of two track ultras in the US (Badgerland and Cornbelt).  I wish there were more.  A full list of 24's is at multidays.com

                            I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

                             

                            Purdey


                            Self anointed title

                               

                              During the track 24's, I have found that shortening my stride in the corners, and legnthening it down the straight parts helps the legs out so that my gait isn't always the same.  It seems to work well for me.

                               

                               

                              Thanks Wriggler - top tip.

                               

                              Obvious really - but I am an idiot.

                               

                               

                              DoppleBock


                                 

                                I would be careful about waiting too long on North Coast.  It has a limit of 200, and I believe it will fill long before September.  They haven't been updating their registration, so it is hard to say where they are at now.

                                 

                                Badgerland was a nice event.  The RD puts on a few good races including Glacial Trail Run in Northern Kettle Moraine (10,550 ft of vertical over 50 miles!)  I would do it again if I wasn't doing North Coast.

                                 

                                 

                                Hmmm - So if I want to meet Wriggley Girl, I need to either do NorthCoast of Glacial in 2010 ???

                                 

                                Glacial is a nice low key race with no long hills, but all the short steep buggers add up to be quad killers -

                                 

                                I think right now the best way to make team USA for 2010 - Brugg Switzerland is Northcoast

                                 

                                Top 3 will make team - The other 3 will come from Open Distances - Likley from May 2009 until Dec 31 2010.  I have the current open list as

                                 

                                Women:

                                Jamie Donaldson - 136.83 - 2009 World Champ Race

                                Jill Perry - 136.3 - 2009 USA Champs Race

                                Susan Bon - 134.7 - 2009 San Francisco 1 day

                                Anna Pskorska - 132.25 - 2010 World Champs

                                Amy Palmiero Winters - 130.04 Arizona

                                 

                                If any of this list make top 3 @ USA champs it would open up a "Open" slot, if not the Open slot person will have to run 134.8 to make the team.  It is a bit of a shame that Anna who was 10th in the world could be shut out of the team.

                                 

                                Men:

                                Scott Jurek - 165.7 - 2010 Worlds

                                Mike Henze - 154.48 - 2010 Worlds

                                Phil Mc Carthy - 151.5 - 2010 USA Champs

                                Serge Arbona - 150.48 - 2010 Worlds

                                 

                                I am told Scott may not do the 2011 Worlds, I believe his heart and soul belongs to the trail ... but I would not 100% count on it.  As far as open spots, there are a couple of young guys out there that I feel have the ability to break my 154.48 mark if they put it together, so I do not feel 100% safe.

                                 

                                I would agree that I would not wait too long before entering the Northcoast race.  I will likely send in my entry form to make sure I can if I get back into 24 hour shape by then.  I do feel a bit more excitement is growing in the USA for the 24 hour race and this could fill sooner than later.

                                 

                                Long dead ... But my stench lingers !

                                 

                                 

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