2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 673 times)

Elite Jogger


    Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here

    Pink Floyd - The Wall

    Grateful Dead - Skeletons From The Closet

    CSNY - So Far

    Stones - Let It Bleed



    Talking of Pink Floyd, I passed Dave Gilmour’s new converted house on my run this morning as it’s only about 6 miles further along the seafront from me and was a former 19th century Turkish bathhouse. Yes, I live near greatness. 😁 https://www.videomuzic.eu/gilmour-i-mixed-jimi-hendrix-s/?lang=en


    Weatherboy - Good luck. 👍


    Slammin - Just keep listening to Don’t stop me now and read The Secret. I actually binge read that book a few days before London this year and think it helped. 😁

    5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)


      Nimmals - I'm in for a 1:17 first half with a goal of 2:34.


      My week went fine - 3x1 miles VO2 max at 5:15 pace on Tuesday and taper since then.


      Taper Czar

        Let's all be grateful the race isn't this Sunday.

        5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 


        Next Race: NYC Half (3/15/20)

          Let's all be grateful the race isn't this Sunday.


          Ok, I see, I am talking on a wrong day - today is Saturday...And today was an awesome weather for a marathon.

          Brewing Runner

          3:56 marathoner at heart

            Quit checking the weather

            1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

            5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

            10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

            Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

            Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

            Annual Miles 2,121 miles

            *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.


            2020 Goal: Short Distance PRs so people won't make fun of me. 


              Weatherboy - Really great work today in the half! I'm looking forward to seeing what you can put up in your full.


              And I'm really starting to get excited for next weekend too! CIM will be fun tracking.


              I'm behind. Both on what's going on with most people here/Strava, but also in my running. I'll get caught up in both. I took a little 9 day vacation with the family to Barcelona. Didn't run all that much. Got in 36 the week before, and 41 this week. Last Sunday I raced a 10k all out in 37:25 or so. I was disappointed in it, but I'm not totally sure what to make of it, and I'm not super worried about it--I've got time before Houston. I also decided to jump in to a 25k this morning with the idea of running the first three moderate (7ish) and then do the remainder at MP effort. That ended up quite a bit slower than I was hoping for too (MP section was around 6:45). But I can't be too surprised by this one after I decided to eat and drink everyyyything that Barcelona had to offer. Time to get focused!

              Upcoming races: Madrid (half) April 2020


              Mother of Cats

                And I'm really starting to get excited for next weekend too! CIM will be fun tracking.




                Weatherboy - adding to the congrats!


                Andres - you don't need to feel great and fast now, you need to feel great and fast on January 19.


                Edited to add: JTReeves  - how are you feeling?  Jmac - how is the shoulder?



                My week:

                56 miles and 24 "miles" of pool-running
                M: Light upperbody weights/core and 10 "miles" pool-running.
                T: 4 miles very easy (9:21), yoga, and 7 miles very easy (8:50) plus drills and two uphill strides. Shoulder PT appt later.
                W: 6.5 miles very easy (9:18), yoga, 5.5 miles very easy (9:08)
                Th: light upper body weights/core and 10 "miles" pool-running
                F: 10 miles aerobic with hills (8:48 average pace) followed by yoga
                Sa: 7 miles very easy (8:58), drills and four strides, light upper body weights/core, and 4 miles very easy (8:40)
                Su: 12 miles aerobic (7:53) followed by leg strengthwork and 4 "miles" pool-running, plus an itty-bitty bit of swimming to test out my bad shoulder.


                Did some gray zone running on Friday and Sunday to tick off Nimmals .    On Friday, after doing a mix of strides and short hill repeats with full recovery, I did roughly 3 miles at grey zone effort (pace ended being around 7:40) on an uphill stretch of rolling hills (Jayluf, if you're reading, this was the Custis trail from Rosslyn to Ballston).  Basically, I wanted to transition from easy running to workouts, without working too hard.  Hence the gray zone moderate effort, with the rolling hills making it a bit more interval like.  Then on Sunday, I did a not-so-long run at gray zone effort as another transition - next weekend I'll do more of a standard long run dropping down to marathon effort at the end.


                Reverting back to our discussion from this spring - my personal opinion is that gray zone running is a bad idea when substituted for an easy run, but has value when used as a bridge between easy runs and workouts, and I really like to use it for that purpose when coming back after a break.

                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.


                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                  I've been off the grid here and on strava the past week, but checked in and have to congratulate Weather on the awesome HM result! Even though you didn't ask I put it on the table since it is a big PR and great result. Things are looking excellent for your marathon based on this!


                  JMac: Reading through the last few pages saw you had a shoulder injury, but looks like it is resolved? I hope so. Need you to fulfill my prediction of 2:36:58 .


                  DW: Nice week; looks like you are recovering well from your marathon. Re your question, feeling physically ok. I have not run since last Saturday; did 10 miles a bit harder than I should have and was pretty sore (not the good kind of soreness, the kind in the inguinal tendon ), so I decided to heed the advice of Cinnamon and Cal and others here and just take time off from running to let it fully heal. Still doing all the strength stuff as well as biking (unfortunately the ski machine really aggravates the injury), but not running is borderline torture for me. But I want to get fully over this crap and not drag it out for eternity. Might start up some very slow TM running later this week.


                  Nimmals: I updated the table with your goal for CIM but I hope you are just pulling a JMac and lowering expectations pre-race. I really think you can get under 2:30. Last year you would have been at 2:32 without the potty stops.

                  2:52:16 (2018)

                  cinnamon girl

                    M: 12 mi  
                    T: 5 mi in AM // 40 min TM in PM
                    W: 20 min, 3 x 1.25 mi (6:11) w/2 min rec, 3 mi
                    T: 12 mi
                    F: 60 min
                    S: 7.2 mi
                    S: 5 mi

                    64 mi. I had wanted to go to the track and do 3-4 x 2k but I was short on time so just ran 1.25 mi on the path from home.


                    Mikkey: COOL!!

                    JTReeves: I was hoping to hear better. I guess if there had to be a time for this, over the holidays isn't bad - social functions and all. Target a good healthy start to the New Year.


                      Weather that was silly good half yesterday.  
                      DW good looking week.  
                      Cinnamon.  I like the slightly longer run the day after the WO.  

                      me.  Got 61 in

                      mon 7 8:30

                      tue 4 with strides 8:15

                      wed 11 with 10k in 34:58

                      thurs 7 8:33

                      fri 10 with 10x1:00 at T (5:40)

                      sat 7 8:30

                      sun 15 as 7 easy then 2x20:00 at MP power (6:14)


                      solid week.  The 10k was awesome.

                      HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04 


                      Taper Czar

                        Woah woah JT, I haven't sandbagged at all this year! I turned over a new leaf with the theme of BOTT. I've gone for aggressive goals and sometimes missed pretty badly. I like your prediction, it gets me to 5:59:12 pace, which rounds down to 5:59. I'll take it! That's my "everything goes perfect" goal: break 6:00 in a marathon. Not sure if that counts as a front page goal or not, I'll let you decide since you say I sandbag 


                        I'm glad you're taking time off. I'm the biggest proponent of that on this board (have another 2 weeks completely off scheduled after CIM). Trust me, you will be fine. I know it's not great for your mental health but don't stress about your running. You probably will come out of this stronger than ever.


                        Swim - I said this earlier and you may have missed it: your MP and T paces seem very far apart based upon VDOT. I highly doubt you have that sort of endurance gap between the two given your mileage. Also, you're still the only person without a goal up on the front page for CIM.


                        Cinnamon - another great week! Hope your work actually does allow you to do Berlin.


                        Andres - plenty of time before Houston. I wouldn't worry about that 10K at all.


                        DW - in terms of dead zone running, I completely agree with you. I think the key is "what is the purpose of this run?" During marathon training, the purpose of easy runs is to recover for your next key workout, which necessitates them being slower. When you're just running easy runs all the time, you're not really recovering for any workouts, so you can run faster. More importantly, your legs will naturally feel faster. As long as you know what easy pace feels like, just go with it. My pace has crept down by a good 30 seconds over the last few weeks because I'm in the taper and much better trained. I've done my best to keep slowing down on the runs, but I'm not going to artificially keep my paces at what they were when I was in full training.


                        Weather - (saving the best for last) big congrats! You finally put together a great race where it seemed like everything clicked. Pacing was perfect on a non-perfect weather day. I think you have no choice but to be thinking about 2:3X given this half and your workouts, which is obviously a massive PR but you can't be scared. I don't want to see you going out in the first half super slow like you did in Boston.


                        Me - shoulder is still crap (I think this is going to be a 4-6 month issue honestly), but it's not impacting my running so I'm not worried at all for CIM. If anything it just may lead to my arm feeling a little more dead late in the race, but that is fine. Just more annoyed at how painful it is in the middle of the night. Revolving doors are my biggest enemy at the moment.


                        Goal for me is to come through the half somewhere between 1:18:00 and 1:19:30, depending on how I'm feeling. Should be a fun tracking day. Makes things a little easier that it starts at 10 am EST!

                        5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 


                        Next Race: NYC Half (3/15/20)


                        Stotan Disciple



                          CIM is going to be a great time regardless of how I run. My GF is a member of a wine club so whenever we are in Napa its wine until they kick us out or refuse service. We are staying in the resort so I can crawl upstairs sleep crawl back down keep drinking and the wine is the only wine I like so after my race I'm going to drink all day for three days. What needs to be determined is whether I am  bathing in wine in celebration or drowning my sorrows.


                          72  miles for me last week,


                          Date ▼ Activity Course Type Distance Duration Pace Actions
                          12/1/2019 Run  Easy in Hills Default 14.4 mi 2:09:22 8:59
                          11/30/2019 Run  Easy in Hills Default 10.0 mi 1:36:24 9:37
                          11/29/2019 Run  Easy Run Default 8.3 mi 1:15:13 9:06
                          11/29/2019 Run  Easy Run Default 7.0 mi 1:02:18 8:54
                          11/28/2019 Run  Cool down Default 3.2 mi 43:10 13:30
                          11/28/2019 Run  Race Default 5.1 mi 26:49 5:22
                          11/28/2019 Run Warm up Default 1.5 mi 18:08 12:06
                          11/28/2019 Run  Warm up Default 0.8 mi 7:42 9:24
                          11/27/2019 Run  Easy Run Default 6.4 mi 1:00:18 9:29
                          11/26/2019 Run  Failed WkO Default 6.8 mi 59:40 8:45
                          11/26/2019 Run   Poop stop Default 0.8 mi 16:40 21:40
                          11/25/2019 Run  Easy Run Default 9.4 mi 1:27:11 9:16



                          Darkwave. Every run serves a purpose but to run in Gray zone for most of your runs or easy runs that's where I lose my top

                          What you did makes a lot of sense. When I'm trying to get back in shape or trying to mold a runner i use a push. I have everyone do a push and pushes are usually in the gray zone but their purpose is to break up an easy run and add a change of pace and have them able to push harder at the end of an easy  long effort.


                          Mikkey, I  am re-reading Amazing Racers by Marc Bloom.  It's one of the newest books on Stotanism out so it will get me ready for CIM.


                          Madison - Sure Thing I'll be in Bright Green Black shorts.


                          Cinnamon - Nice job on the 2ks. I did them on a bike path for years but the path is too dark now and I have other people I'm responsible for in the early mornings so the track is lighted but on my own I used to light up the bike path. Create and Own the 1k & 2K segments lol. this way you can analyze your consistency and see the improvement I go back and forth have it mapped out. So I can get feedback track improvements.


                          JTReeves I'm nervous I'm back down to 151 lbs but will be a struggle this week. I'm taking Monday off will do some Controlled eating this week. yesterday I went to BJs bought all kind of oreos and sugar filled cereals and shit for the kids but I bought nuts and trail mix snacks for myself if I can stay out the kids snack I'm good. Those King Hawaiian rolls are calling to me every time I pass the kitchen though.


                          Swim Nice week, but  do you not understand taper Just kidding I hit 72.

                          Thinking should be done first, before training begins.


                            Thanks everyone for the kind words!  Beyond elated with the result given my recent training and lack of a more substantial taper in the last 2 weeks.  I just cut back my workout a bit on Tuesday and reduced the mileage in the last few days, but more than made up for it  by walking around Disney for 8+ hours on Friday Wink


                            Knew going in that I was in PR shape based on my recent workouts and certainly the 10K PR from 2 weeks ago, but was unsure given the high volume and weather forecast of mid to upper 60's and 95-100% humidity with a headwind of 10+ mph on the return half.   So figured I would instead go out hard, not worry about an exact pace, and try to actually compete based on past results.  This is a big race, but does not garner faster runners from elsewhere except for one 'local elite who wins the full marathon every year running very close to 2:30 (he just ran 2:27 at NYC a few weeks back).  Of note is the full and half folks go out together so I figured I would at least try to keep him in my sights to help pace my half which is exactly how it played out over the first few miles.


                            Race day weather actually turned out a few degrees cooler at the start (right around 64 warming to about 68 at the finish) and I thought the headwind (probably 7-10 mph instead of the 10-20 as forecast) on the return offered a bit of a cooling effect instead so not as bad as it could have been! After a sluggish warmup switched into my Next %, wearing them for only the 2nd time, did a few gentle strides and lined up at the start with less than 5 minutes to go.  Gun went off and the  mile 1 actually felt downright hard (the first few miles in any race in this pace range never feel good to me), but then I settled into a nice little rhythm towards the end of the mile 2 (first 2 were clocked in at 5:46, 48).  Ran just behind 3 guys and the motorcycle escort for the first few as well, but then they separated a bit and I made a conscious decision not to go with them right around mile 3.  Turns out only 1 of them was running the half as the other 2 were running the full.  I would not see either of these 2 guys that close again as I remained a good 30-40s behind each of them through my finish.  Of note mile 3 had a slight  uphill so I slowed just a bit running a 5:50, which would turn out to be my slowest mile overall.


                            Really felt smooth through miles 4, 5, and 6 as there were gentle rollers and the effort level felt like it was in the right zone.  Felt like I could push here if I wanted, but decided to just let the race come to me instead.  Also made sure to grab fluids at just about every stop, not because I needed them, but to practice for the full next month.  Knocked out these miles in 5:46, 45, and 48.  Also it was here that I passed the only other half  runner that had gone out ahead of me as he fell back somewhere after mile 5.  Told him great job and never really saw him again until the finish.  However; right after mile 6 though a younger guy actually surprised me and and passed me.  I wasn't immediately sure if he was running the full or half initially, so I stayed with him for the next bit.  Turns out he was also running the half and we ended up running pretty much together for the next 3 miles. I did note he was really having a hard time breathing.  Turns out he was running his first ever half marathon!  Passed the turnaround point at mile 6.5 and as I mentioned we turned into a slight headwind, but think this really helped negate the impact of the heat.  Effort to maintain the pace was starting to get appreciably hard at this point so took in a gel around 7 and felt a bit better past mile 8/9.  Miles 7, 8, and 9 came in at 5:45, 46, and 47.  As mentioned passed the guy I had been with for the past few miles at this point and really could tell this was gonna be a good day.  Only thing of note was a few decent rollers and then the most sizeable uphill in mile 12 to the finish.  Was able to speed up pace/effort a bit starting in mile 10 and 11 hitting 5:47 and 5:39, then took the uphill mile at 5:46, before nailing the last full mile 13 in 5:33!


                            I had absolutely no idea that I was so close to a sub 76 as I was making sure I was just gonna finish and place as high as possible.  I also could see the 2 runners ahead of me not take the left towards the half finish line late in mile 13 and instead proceed on towards the back half of the full course so I knew I was actually gonna win the HM.  Turned the final corner just after mile 13 and saw the clock in the high 1:15x range so pushed through the finish line running a 1:15:53 finishing more than a minute ahead of second place, but still slower than the 2 guys running the full Wink  Had 13.20 miles for the course so it either was measured long or I did a not so good job of running tangents.  Others had 13.20 as well so I guess it could have just been long!


                            Really proud of this PR and think this sets me up for a sub 2:40 attempt in 5 weeks assuming at least decent to good weather in Jacksonville!   One minor thing of concern is that the Vaporfly's really did a number on my center left toe as it was pretty bloody afterwards and pretty painful today.   Shoe has decent toe room, but is pretty narrow compared to my other trainers.  I had this issue in my 10K race as well.   Anyone have a similar issue?  Might have to consider taping them up for the full?  Rest of the week was fairly uneventful.  Had some pretty nice 6 X 1 threshold repeats on Tuesday running a decent negative split on those repeats and still got in over 75 miles for the week.  Don't think I will be running ANY workouts this week to get my legs back to normal, but I will try to keep the volume up.


                            Good luck to those at CIM next week.  Don't go too crazy in this taper!


                            Andres: Don't be too concerned about 1 bad race as you've had other great workouts recently.  Upwards!


                            DW: Yet another solid looking week, especially for still recovering!  One thing I have tried to do more often than not is really ease off my easy day pace, similar to JMac, this cycle.  I still have 1 or 2 runs per week that would be considered grey zone though.


                            JT: Thanks for the kind words!  I would be in a similar situation as I would go crazy not being able to run when I wanted to!  Hope this rest allows you to come back strong!

                            JMac: Looking very solid for your sub 2:40 at CIM and probably well under at this point!  Hope the shoulder behaves.


                            Cinnamon: Solid week and a great looking workout!

                            Swim: Super result on the 10K - congrats!!

                            5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 34:30 (11/19)  |  HM: 1:15:53 (12/19)  |  FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)

                            Brewing Runner

                            3:56 marathoner at heart

                              Andres - you don't need to feel great and fast now, you need to feel great and fast on January 19.


                              Listen to this advice. It's GOLD. Worked very well for me this cycle.


                              cinnamon I've never understood the fascination with doing stuff on a track. I don't have access to a track and have to do it all on running paths. I just use GPS however I've seriously considered taking a measuring wheel out and spray painting marks on the road.


                              jmac you just reminded me I should print out a pace band for CIM. I honestly drew a blank for what time I should be going through half or anywhere else for that matter. I think I'll have to find the pacer at the expo and ask if they're doing a "3:00 BQ" that's really a 2:58, or a legit 2:59:59 marathon. Both are theoretically possible however that 6:47/mi pace just might need to wait until the second half of the race.


                              dwave stealing from elsewhere....The damaged nerves seem to mirror somethign I had happen after being ejected from a RZR1000. I still have an odd numbness/lack of sensitivity on one hip (love handle) that's probably from a blunt force hitting the area. Hope it gets better for you and recovery seems to be going well. I was thinking LIKE you the other day on a run. Fear of a vehicle not paying attention in dark or snow (I forget which) had me wondering if Dallas (week after CIM, keen is running it) had openings. I'd spend a lot of money to run a race I know nothing about with all this training.


                              nimmals nice place. enjoy the wine. I'm sure you'll go big at CIM. Oh and I think you mean you went to TJ's (Trader Joes) not BJ's (restaurant) to buy snacks...although BJs does have an Oreo pizooke.


                              Bag mostly packed for CIM. Dinner reservation made (chipotle doesn't take reservations). All I have to do now is decide on breakfast, and when to take gels. 6;50/,I pace sticking with the pace group is the goal. Swing the first turn wide. Maybe stay on the bus as long as possible since I'm not meeting anyone this year. Probably saves me from using a drop bag.

                              I'm thinking 1 before the start, one every 5-6 miles (40ish minutes) around water stations for gels, and my traditional 3 egg with bagel breakfast.  I cut out caffeine for a few weeks over the last month then reintroduced it (rockstars, coffee, soda) and didn't notice any difference. One or two nights I wouldn't fall asleep but that happens without caffeine. I'm going caffeine free through race day. I don't want a mid race stop. This should get exciting.


                              EDIT: I ran  a "10K" (6.07 miles) at 6:33/mi pace on Thanksgiving. Course was icy and/or snowy so I decided not to risk an injury and pulled back. Good course for a PR though. The 24F temps weren't even too bad. Now I just need to make it through this last week with snow and rain healthy enough to race.

                              1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                              5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                              10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                              Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

                              Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

                              Annual Miles 2,121 miles

                              *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.


                              2020 Goal: Short Distance PRs so people won't make fun of me. 

                              Elite Jogger

                                Slammin - That looks like a nice place you’ll be staying at and it’ll be good for you to chill out for a few days after the race! I honestly don’t think you should be talking an exact time goal right now and it’s definitely a bad idea to weigh yourself daily if it’s going to mess with your head. There is no way that you’ve legitimately gained 5Ibs in a week or two so don’t worry about that. You’ll be giving it 100% as always. 👍


                                Weatherboy - Big congrats on another PR...your results are finally lining up with your fitness! Middle tow bleeding with the VFs? That sounds like a minor detail and if you felt they gave you an advantage compared to your previous marathon race shoes then just suck it up....or buy another pair 1/2 a size bigger?


                                Andres - Congrats on the 10k...maybe you’re in 2:55 shape right now, but with 7/8 weeks to go that can easily drop to 2:49 or better. 😁


                                Brew - Pre marathon breakfast is always individual....but I would be sick if I had a bagel with 3 eggs!  I’m never hungry pre race and mostly rely on liquid carbs. (Maurten drink mix at London this year)


                                JMac - I think JT was messing with you as you’re the exact opposite of a sandbagger. Sub 2:36 or bust. 👍

                                5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)