RunningAHEAD - Topic: Undertrained marathoner

Mishka-old log

posted: 10/17/2008 at 8:38 AM

My last 2 months in preparation for the NY Marathon 2 weeks from now has been less than stellar. Same story as usual...I'm not smart and patient enough to stay healthy. I have done a (barely) sufficient job of cross training in the mean time. My long "runs" were 2-3 hour bike rides, mostly easy, with a little intensity thrown in. I did 4 or 5 of those. My injury is slowly allowing me to run again. I'm still hoping for an honest performance in the marathon (but knowing realistically that getting within 20 minutes of my PR would be an accomplishment). That's what I'd like to go for though. I think I have a solid base of general fitness. It is just not running-specific right now. And in 2 weeks, I'm obviously not going to convert it fully to running-specific fitness. I'm not sure what would bring my fitness back around the best at this point. My biggest concern is that my legs will not have the tolerance to pound on pavement for 3+ hours. I was thinking of getting in a medium-long run (1:30 - 1:45) on pavement, at a slow pace, within the next few days. Would that help with impact-tolerance in such a short time frame? Or is too risky, even at a slow pace? Is impact-tolerance my key issue? Or should I be focusing on something else altogether? Any other suggestions?

JimR

posted: 10/17/2008 at 10:05 AM

If this were a hometown event or something, I'd say do what you can and just try to get through. It's the expense that would be my deciding factor. I was quite prepped for a full a few years back and hit a calf injury late in the schedule. I was still in reasonable shape for the race but could no longer justify the cost for something I'd really only be trying to finish instead of race. If you do go, there's little you can do between now and then to make yourself race worthy. The best you can hope for is to minimize the pain.

Ileneforward

#artbydmcbride

posted: 10/17/2008 at 10:17 AM

I think it will help. Both physically and mentally. A 1:45 to 2 hour easy-paced run this weekend will be the best prep you can do right now. Its not like you need to ensure a big taper. Big grin

Runners run

Mishka-old log

posted: 10/17/2008 at 11:04 AM
modified: 10/17/2008 at 11:05 AM

Thanks for the responses. Jim, I'm definitely going...even if my knee flares back up between now and then and I can't even start. Minimizing pain is certainly what I'm after. I know how the last 6 miles feel on trained legs and I'm dreading that on untrained legs. So, I assume you don't see the benefit of the longer run from a purely physiological standpoint. Is that because 2 weeks is too short for the whole process to complete (muscles break down, recover and be a bit more ready to handle prolonged impact)? Ilene, you don't think a run of that length is too risky? My weekly miles in the last 6 weeks have been: 0 (6 weeks ago), 5, 6, 14, 5, 3. I know the marathon itself is probably going to crush me, but I don't want a run like this to keep the marathon from happening at all. That's why I was thinking "slow" for this run (if I do it at all).

Ileneforward

#artbydmcbride

posted: 10/17/2008 at 11:25 AM

No I don't think a long run now is that risky. If you were in the middle of a marathon training cycle and building up your mileage, you would do a long run now and then 2 weeks later a longer run, and the second run would feel much easier due to the first run. Just treat your marathon like it is the longest run in your mileage build-up. Good luck, and have fun no matter what. Smile

relentless forward motion!

Runners run

jscovill

posted: 10/17/2008 at 11:41 AM

Not to sound like a downer, but what would it do to you mentally if the long run goes bad? Personally, I'd do something at MP at a much shorter distance (5-6 miles). See what that feels like and then a short recovery run later. I'd save the banging for the marathon. I think you're right on the cusp of any training that would affect your race (I believe its 10 days from the race and running in between that time is just waking up the legs).

And you know sometimes it gets so painful Just like talking to yourself When everything don't seem to have no rhyme or reason We all go Do do loo do do, do do loo do do Waiting for the sun to shine

JimR

posted: 10/17/2008 at 11:45 AM

Quote from Mishka-old log on 10/17/2008 at 11:04 AM:

Jim, I'm definitely going...even if my knee flares back up between now and then and I can't even start. Minimizing pain is certainly what I'm after. I know how the last 6 miles feel on trained legs and I'm dreading that on untrained legs.

Then maybe use the bike this weekend to go long and keep your endurance up, since you seem to handle that okay. Keep running, you need whatever time on your legs you can get to be road worthy on race day.

Mishka-old log

posted: 10/17/2008 at 11:51 AM

Quote from jscovill on 10/17/2008 at 11:41 AM:

Not to sound like a downer, but what would it do to you mentally if the long run goes bad?

Thanks for the response, Jeff. As far as disappointment, I want to say, "not too much." I'm not extremely invested in the outcome, but I do want to maximize my potential performance with the remaining time I have. If this longer goes bad, I've got some buddies running significantly slower that I will run with. We will have a good time with it. Most of my disappointment is a month old at this point.

Personally, I'd do something at MP at a much shorter distance (5-6 miles). See what that feels like and then a short recovery run later. I'd save the banging for the marathon. I think you're right on the cusp of any training that would affect your race (I believe its 10 days from the race and running in between that time is just waking up the legs).

I'd love to go MP, but my experience with this injury (runner's knee flare-up) is that I need some slower running to allow some faster running later, but it takes a few weeks for that to happen. I'm afraid MP now will flare it back up and I'll have to start the build back process over. There's also the risk that my planned MP, even on race day, will be enough to aggravate the injury. I'm willing to take the risk at that time. Delaying the timing of running at MP seems the most prudent option right now.

Mishka-old log

posted: 10/17/2008 at 11:58 AM

Quote from Ileneforward on 10/17/2008 at 11:25 AM:

No I don't think a long run now is that risky. If you were in the middle of a marathon training cycle and building up your mileage, you would do a long run now and then 2 weeks later a longer run, and the second run would feel much easier due to the first run. Just treat your marathon like it is the longest run in your mileage build-up. Good luck, and have fun no matter what. relentless forward motion!

This rings very true with my experience in building up. That first 1:45 run really starts hurting during the last 15 min. But a week or two later, for a 2:00 run, I'm fine up until the 1:45 point, then it's dig time. Thanks again Ilene.

jscovill

posted: 10/17/2008 at 11:59 AM

yeah, you've got a lot of experience and know yourself better than I. Get to the starting line as healthy as you can be. There's always a little magic available in every race, be ready for it! Smile

And you know sometimes it gets so painful Just like talking to yourself When everything don't seem to have no rhyme or reason We all go Do do loo do do, do do loo do do Waiting for the sun to shine

Mishka-old log

posted: 10/17/2008 at 12:18 PM

I posted my question in the coaching forum, and Blaine (Run2Win) offered the following insight:

I recommend doing a your medium long run, but throw in some walking breaks every once in a while right from the get go. A minute every mile, or 30 seconds every 4 minutes, or something like that. It'll help you control your fatigue.

Seems like a hell of an option. I've never really worked walking into a training run, but this should allow that longer effort I was looking for, but minimize some of the risk with a sudden spike in training. Jim, I'm thinking of using the bike next week to commute to work a couple times. That gets me 2 easy 1 hour rides each day I commute. I'm thinking of going with a plan of doing those rides, combined with the longer run, and shorter runs on all the other days...maybe a little MP in the last week, depending on how the knee handles things. It's not going to be the performance of a lifetime, but I think I can still eek out something decent.

mikeymike

posted: 10/17/2008 at 2:07 PM

I'd probably try a medium long run at an easy pace. I don't see much downside. You're gonna go and you're gonna run the thing anyway. And it's gonna hurt. But you gotta do what you gotta do. And you know that relative breakthroughs are possible.

Runners run

Undertrained marathoner - 2 weeks out (Read 783 times)