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Rest Days Discouraged With Running Wizard? (Read 305 times)

    From the site:

    "Remember, however, it is always better to go for an easy jog than taking a day completely off."

     

    Most training plans I've seen (and "followed") demand at least one day a week be set aside for complete rest. That's what I've always done, almost never streaking longer than ten days. I have no idea if the mandatory day off helped or not, though. I've always just assumed it was needed for the body to recoup.

     

    So I've been considering signing up for Running Wizard one of these days, but the lack of a rest day makes the ol eyebrow raise skeptically. I get the rank system (nice!) and that there's a monitoring process that keeps a runner in check (also nice! I can't be trusted with myself!); is this what's used instead of regular rest?

     

    What do advocates of Running Wizard say to those who insist a rest day a week is necessary?

     

    Today is a "planned" rest day for me. Let's see if you guys can convince me to go for an easy jog after work instead.

      When you sign up for running wizard, you can stipulate how many days per week you want to train. I know at least one person who is using a 4-day-per-week plan.

       

      so there is no need to overwork the eyebrow Smile besides, in general, i think "rest" is a relative thing. If you're in good shape, a 20 minute jog is not going to push you towards overtraining and - at least for me - leaves the legs feeling fresher for the next real workout.


      Bacon Party!

        Agree with what runharrietrun said.

        If you're not comfortable with the idea of running 7 days a week, then sign up for 6 or 5 or whatever. But, the more you run, the better you'll become. And, the plans are designed so that adequate recovery is built in.

         

        IIRC, one of the objectives of Lydiard-style training is to teach the body how to recover while running (jogging). Running does not need to be (nor should it always be) a grueling, taxing thing from which one needs to recover - when it becomes it habit, then it's just another part of a normal day.

        Liz

        pace sera, sera

          My thought is that in life, no day is a full rest day.  I mean seriously.  You are walking every day, right?  When a person goes shopping at the mall, they put a couple miles on their legs doing that, right?   IE.  NO day is really a rest day!  So that said, why not get out and Jog an 'eeeasy 2 miler' at a real easy pace instead of taking a day offf?

           

          My belief is that it certainly will not hurt physically, and it also helps mentally.  Warning:  You are talking to a STREAKER, and I am over 100 days now.  It helps me mentally because I automatically know I am going to run every day!   Second, I think it helps Physically because I am getting more mileage, running faster, and running farther than I ever have.

           

          Final Opinion:  I see no need for a day off, ever really.  IE.  You can take a day off, sure.  But it does not have to be 'scheduled in" each week for recovery.      If fatigue or soreness occurs after an especially hard run or race, then a short easy jog of 15 minutes on the folowing day would only aid healing, not delay it.  --- The main "Rest and rebuilding" occurs when you are sleeping.  So you don't need a "rest" 24 hours, just the "rest" 8 hour sleep!

          .

          The Plan (big parts)→  ///  March:  Shamrock Marathon  ///  April:  24 Hour Run for Cancer  ///   May:  3 Days at the Fair (12 Hour)  ///  Nov:  New York Marathon ∞

            From the site:

            "Remember, however, it is always better to go for an easy jog than taking a day completely off."

             

            Most training plans I've seen (and "followed") demand at least one day a week be set aside for complete rest. That's what I've always done, almost never streaking longer than ten days. I have no idea if the mandatory day off helped or not, though. I've always just assumed it was needed for the body to recoup.

             

            So I've been considering signing up for Running Wizard one of these days, but the lack of a rest day makes the ol eyebrow raise skeptically. I get the rank system (nice!) and that there's a monitoring process that keeps a runner in check (also nice! I can't be trusted with myself!); is this what's used instead of regular rest?

             

            What do advocates of Running Wizard say to those who insist a rest day a week is necessary?

             

            Today is a "planned" rest day for me. Let's see if you guys can convince me to go for an easy jog after work instead.

            I don't know if you do this but people (so-called "experts") used to say that you need stability and cushion for shoes.  Now people had started to see otherwise.  People used to believe you've GOT TO do 3 X 20-milers to do well in the marathon.  Now Hansons are saying otherwise...  Some people might have "demanded" AT LEAST one day a week of rest yet many people run everyday, some doubles, and doing fine...or well.  Some people talk this as if it's a must and, if you don't follow it, you'll get hurt; that you need to have a down-week every so many weeks.  Yet, we never even talked about it until (I think Jeff Galloway was the first one who said it back in early 1980s) more recently and, somehow, it sort of became a "must".  And I've heard some PT, not a coach or an athlete, saying that, if you go beyond 40-miles a week, you'll get injured so don't do it.  Yet, I know many people who run more than 100-miles a week and, in fact, I know some of them actually getting hurt LESS than those who run less than 40.

             

            With Running Wizard, we tried to provide something REAL.  Something true and decent (but afraid to talk about because the audiences wouldn't want to hear that).  Nobody wants to hear that he/she is not ready to even train for a marathon.  In fact, we didn't really want to put together 4-days-a-week plan.  I mean, seriously, you expect to do well by only training 4 days a week?  That's a typical "lose weight in 2 weeks by 'working out' 10-minutes a day!" thinking.  Most "stimulus" SHOULD recover within 12-hours.  If it really takes more than 24-hours and you can't recover the next day to do the workout, chances are that you're doing it too much.  We don't want that.  Our goal was to provide a training regime that the person can actually follow.  And IF, for whatever the reason--some actually many not even be the workout but life-style or outside factors like getting sick--, you hadn't, our Recovery Indicators, if used correctly and diligently, WILL TELL YOU to take a day off.

              And I've heard some PT, not a coach or an athlete, saying that, if you go beyond 40-miles a week, you'll get injured so don't do it. 

               

              Hey, we all know running will RUIN your knees. And if you're a woman your uterus will fall out.

              zonykel


                You can do whatever you want with your training schedule. I picked 6 Days, since that was the increase I was comfortable with (I was running less days before I signed up with RW).

                 

                many weeks I end up running only 5 days. There are other priorities in life.

                 

                in my case, I think there is a psychological benefit to getting a day off from running. Others may enjoy the lack of break.

                 

                But if your goal is to PR, run at your absolute best, and running is one of your highest priorities, then I can see why someone would be motivated to run 7 days a week. You're simply trying to extract the greatest possible fitness during the training period.

                 

                From the site:

                "Remember, however, it is always better to go for an easy jog than taking a day completely off."

                 

                Most training plans I've seen (and "followed") demand at least one day a week be set aside for complete rest. That's what I've always done, almost never streaking longer than ten days. I have no idea if the mandatory day off helped or not, though. I've always just assumed it was needed for the body to recoup.

                 

                So I've been considering signing up for Running Wizard one of these days, but the lack of a rest day makes the ol eyebrow raise skeptically. I get the rank system (nice!) and that there's a monitoring process that keeps a runner in check (also nice! I can't be trusted with myself!); is this what's used instead of regular rest?

                 

                What do advocates of Running Wizard say to those who insist a rest day a week is necessary?

                 

                Today is a "planned" rest day for me. Let's see if you guys can convince me to go for an easy jog after work instead.


                Hungry

                  From the site:

                  "Remember, however, it is always better to go for an easy jog than taking a day completely off."

                   ...

                  What do advocates of Running Wizard say to those who insist a rest day a week is necessary?

                  I would consider myself an advocate of RW, even though I'm only 11 weeks into my first marathon plan using RW. But I think there may be some missing context in this question (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong). Isn't the language you quoted from the site referring to days where there IS a run scheduled, but because of life (work, family, lack of sleep, etc.), you might be inclined to skip a day. In those cases, you'd always be better off doing at least an easy jog than taking the day off completely. That was my recollection and interpretation of that quote.

                   

                  I signed up for a 6-day-per-week RW plan, and I am thoroughly enjoying it so far. I have one scheduled "rest" day each week. But on those days, I often try to do something (exercise bike, pushups, situps, stretching, and even some jogging). I agree with the premise that light/easy jogging helps with recovery. Yesterday, I welcomed my "rest" day and did nothing. I was worn out from my first week in the "Hills" phase, as well as perhaps pushing my first "PCR" run a bit harder than I should have.

                   

                  Anyhow, there is a common theme in a lot of what I've seen on the RW site regarding flexibility and learning to develop a "feel" for how hard to push the effort level for a given workout (and when to back off or take a day off completely). I haven't quite developed that sense of feel yet, but the Recovery Indicators have served me well -- I've taken a day off completely based on my recovery indicators when there was a fairly important (rank #2) out-and-back run scheduled.

                   

                  Not sure if this helps in your decision. I guess my short answer to the question posed is, "I don't think rest days are strongly discouraged with RW."  How's that for wishy-washy?

                  2013: 2647.2 miles

                  2014: Boston

                    Thanks, SubDood.  I think you summed up well.

                     

                    By the way, certainly we don't discourage rest days.  In fact, on the contrary, as SubDood had mentioned, we ENCOURAGE rest day(s) IF you are not quite adequately recovered based on Recovery Indicators--and THAT is the VERY reason we incorporated RI.  We don't necessarily encourage rest days because the balanced training program SHOULD NOT require scheduled rest day.  However, it is the trend that many "runners" don't seem to want to run everyday plus, as many had pointed out, sometimes life gets in a way--totally understandable.  That's why we had created 4, 5, 6-days-a-week plan.  Some Hard-Core Lydiard people still say what Lydiard had said--"I don't prescribe a day off because I don't believe in it."  That's fine.  And I have personally criticized for providing 4, 5, 6-days a week plan and call that "Lydiard".  But I also know that Lydiard would have never turned down someone just because they cannot (again, because "life got in a way") run everyday.

                     

                    Funny, if you think about it though.  It seems to me that, using something like Recovery Indicators, or Common Sense or whatever; most people today seem to IGNORE all those signs that they are in fact over-doing it.  Yet, they think the mandatory day off is a must.  Maybe it's a trend; instead of listening to their body's reaction, they want to believe the scheduled rest day is "physiologically necessary" so they'll have to take one.  The truth of the fact is; we are all very capable, physically, to run everyday, twice a day.  In most cases, we do too much--too far, too long, too fast--and THAT requires more rest than necessary.  So if you absolutely HAVE TO take a day or two off, chances are; the plan itself is too much.

                     

                    Also, on the side-note, SubDood, make sure you keep using RI because, here's another pit-hole many people tend to fall, REST SHOULD BE REST.  Far too many people take a day off from running and go to the gym and worked their a$$es off, riding a bike or elliptical or whatever.  That's not the point of "RECOVERY".  REST SHOULD BE REST; if you want to cross-train, might as well, do so on the actual workout day.  Of course, if you just casually ride a bike, and not be competitive about it, then that would be fine.

                      I started my current marathon training cycle fully intending for it to be a 6-day-a-week plan, but then back in November I took up the holiday streak challenge that SeanV2 posted here on RA, still not really expecting to keep it up.  But as time went on, I found myself getting stronger and stronger, and running became easier, both physically and psychologically.  Now, it's just something I do when I get up in the morning, and there's no internal bargaining with myself as to whether I should run or not.

                       

                      Today's run, though, was just a two mile easy jog, because I'm in a mini-taper for tomorrow's ten-mile race.

                      Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

                        Agree very much with Nobby's statement that a 'balanced training program SHOULD NOT require a scheduled rest day".  If you are training properly no workout or series of workouts should force you (because you're too tired or sore to run) to take a regularly scheduled rest day.   If you have to take a rest day then IMHO you're doing too much or too hard.  Now, you can take rest days because you want to or circumstances force you to but that's a different thing than HAVING to take a rest day for recovery.

                          -double post- delete

                            Keep in mind also that a day not running according to a schedule may not be a "rest" day if you're running around with family stuff or a field day at work or a trail work day (4-6 hrs including couple miles of hiking with gear to get to site and back) or whatever. (In my own schedules, that gets logged as "trail work" and may need a recovery day afterwards. The hiking part gets included as hiking in with running since we hike in some races.)

                            "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

                              Thanks for the feedback, everybody!

                               

                              I'm intrigued by the RI. That seems to make more sense than just ritualistically taking a day off, and I feel I could be better at the whole "listening to the body" thing. Having a system would help.

                               

                              I'm mostly drawn to the idea of running every day because it's unpopular, though. So I'm ready to sign up, but I don't have a goal race within the time frames offered. Is there a generic base-building plan?

                               

                              Also, is there a plan where I can ask Nobby all of my nagging questions? 

                                Thanks for the feedback, everybody!

                                 

                                I'm intrigued by the RI. That seems to make more sense than just ritualistically taking a day off, and I feel I could be better at the whole "listening to the body" thing. Having a system would help.

                                 

                                I'm mostly drawn to the idea of running every day because it's unpopular, though. So I'm ready to sign up, but I don't have a goal race within the time frames offered. Is there a generic base-building plan?

                                 

                                Also, is there a plan where I can ask Nobby all of my nagging questions? 

                                 

                                If you want to get Nobby''s attention, just start a new thread with a preposperous title like "FIRST Program is better than Running Wizard."    It won't be long before he "chmes" in. :-)

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