2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 423 times)

Running Problem


Problem Child

    Keen At some point you're going to need to stop drafting and start leading so others can draft. You're the tallest one out there so guys like me can tuck in behind you annoyingly close to your heels. I say "like me" meaning short because no way could I run a 6:06/mi 5k in a 20 mph headwind.

    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

    VDOT 51

    5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

    darkwave


    Mother of Cats

      Keen At some point you're going to need to stop drafting and start leading so others can draft. You're the tallest one out there so guys like me can tuck in behind you annoyingly close to your heels. I say "like me" meaning short because no way could I run a 6:06/mi 5k in a 20 mph headwind.

       

      This is the best thing about being short - generally nobody wants me to take a turn at the lead when there's a headwind.  I'm useless.

       

      Except for that one race (Philly Love Run 2018) where a bunch of guys for some reason did try to use me to draft.  I don't think it was very helpful to them....

       

      CK - It turned out I knew about 10 people running Philly.  I was able to take the 6:10 am train up on Sunday, getting to Philly at 8:15 (the race started at 7 am).  Got myself up to around 25.5 about 20 minutes before the leaders came through, and then hung out there until the 4 hour marathoners came through.  Then grabbed lunch at a Chipotle and took the train back home (got home around 4).  It worked out nicely.  I got to see my friends finish and also got to see other friends who were there cheering.  And since my fall racing season ended up fizzling, it was nice to actually at least feel in some way like I was part of a marathon.

      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

       

      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

      JMac11


      Milkman

         

        And since my fall racing season ended up fizzling, it was nice to actually at least feel in some way like I was part of a marathon.

         

        You are me. Seeing the NYC marathon fired me up to get back out there after my injury. Without that, I feel like I would have been down and out about trying to build back up after a minimum of 4 weeks off.

         

        RP - races, not shoes! Your tune up this week was a great sign for you. PR or bust this cycle and think about how down and out you were about how this cycle was going!

         

        CK - big fan of a more exponential taper. You should check out Molly Seidel's taper on Strava. She somehow ran 104 miles the week before the marathon. Insane, even with running 120 MPW.

        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

         

        Next Race: Unknown 

        Running Problem


        Problem Child

          JMac yeah this was a pretty big emotional swing. I was just commenting on Strava about how I thought I was in 3:08 shape at the beginning, then PR'd the 10k and it was enough to make me to get "marathon RP" off the couch for training. It's different going into this race for some reason, and I'd love a PR. After the last few 10M runs I'm kind of tempted to go for a 6:45/mi pace to see what happens, and as long as I pull another sub 3 for the BQ-5+ going into 2023 I'd consider it a success.

           

          Dakrwave I thought about leading the pack the other day. In 2019 when I got into the 3:00 pace group I was towards the front getting frustrated people wouldn't slow down since I was doing 6:50/mi pace. I think even the official pacer was behind me at some point and brought the group up to me. I wonder if they just used me as a draft, stopped thinking, and ran next to me out of herd mentality. They'll have the same pacer this year and I'm sure he's going to do just fine.

          EDIT: also, I'm pretty sure you're part of every marathon I do. Even if it's only for the "train for where you're at" and lunchtime Chipotle.

           

          I actually need to get some gels, and figure out dinner the night before too. Reservations are going to SUUUUUUUCCCCKKKKK now since I've waited so long. Chipotle anyone?

          Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

          VDOT 51

          5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

          Marby


            Mikey: Invincibles at black Friday prices might just be too much to resist.

             

            JTR: Another good week. What was the progression getting back to 70+ mi?  Seems to have come quick but that’s probably just how it seems. 
            Official race time is 6am on 12/12.  It won’t be changing or cancelled. Promise. Goal, if  it needs saying, sub 3.

             

            RP: Great race sim workout. As I think you’ll find that I’ve said consistently for some time now – looks like you are in sub 3 shape. 

             

            Keen: I have a box of the same arriving today.  I had a hair brained idea to sip on honey. Tested that out and glad I did, the throat feel wasn’t good.  In the days before I’m most looking forward to bread.

            10K 41:35 (2016), Half 1:27:01 (2015) Marathon 3:02:48 (2015)

            CommanderKeen


            Aspiring Hobby Jogger

              DWave at a race and eating Chipotle. There's something oddly comforting about that.


              JMac - I think I'll like the sharper taper. I've done the standard 3 week one before and typically feel a little flat.
              The sharper taper does make sense. Kinda striking a balance between being rested and fresh, while keeping up more of what the body is used to (running).


              RP - I'd be up for Chipotle for dinner/lunch/second meal of the day prior to the race. Unsure about plans for the last meal of the day.


              Marby - I've tried packets of honey before. Nothing spectacular, but no downsides at all for me.
              Have you tried the beta fuels before?

              5k: 18:14 11/21 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

               

              Upcoming Races:

               

              12/4 - Tucson Marathon?

              12/5 - California International Marathon

              Running Problem


              Problem Child

                Marby I had to dig deep for the comment you made earlier. I could have SWORN you said I wasn't ready for a sub-3 attempt, and I used it to push for a sub-3 attempt. I'm hoping you get a race soon. Your workouts just look like you're ready and waiting.

                 

                keen I'm scheduled to be at the expo for the last opening/time slot of the day. Depending on what's going on with wife and kids I'll hit you up on the lunch (meal around 2pm?) thing. Totally not weird to share phone numbers with people I've only talk to online. This isn't the 90s or something where weirdos are online. The whole world is virtual now and the worse you could do is send me random text messages with photos.

                 

                JMac how is the injury and healing going?

                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                VDOT 51

                5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10


                Elite Jogger

                  11 more sleeps until sunny Spain!

                   

                  I’ll be packing 6 caffeine Maurten gels and 2 of their 320 mix drinks for fuel. I rarely drink coffee so I’m hoping the caffeine boost will make my legs go that little bit faster.

                  5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                  darkwave


                  Mother of Cats

                    11 more sleeps until sunny Spain!

                     

                    I’ll be packing 6 caffeine Maurten gels and 2 of their 320 mix drinks for fuel. I rarely drink coffee so I’m hoping the caffeine boost will make my legs go that little bit faster.

                     

                    600mg of caffeine?  That's a LOT.

                    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                     

                    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                    JMac11


                    Milkman

                       

                      600mg of caffeine?  That's a LOT.

                       

                      Yeah I drink coffee pretty religiously and I wouldn't take in that much during a race. Frankly it would either lead to heart palpitations or dashing to the nearest port-a-john!

                       

                      RP - MRI today, hopefully all comes back negative. Pain has moved around a bit. If MRI is negative, may try to go for a test run this weekend.

                       

                      CK - I think only DW does the standard 3 week taper if I remember correctly. I'm more of an exponential person. Probably 90% 3 weeks prior and 75% 2 weeks prior works for me.

                      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                       

                      Next Race: Unknown 

                      Running Problem


                      Problem Child

                        11 more sleeps until sunny Spain!

                         

                        I’ll be packing 6 caffeine Maurten gels and 2 of their 320 mix drinks for fuel. I rarely drink coffee so I’m hoping the caffeine boost will make my legs go that little bit faster.

                         

                        Ultra marathon? 32 ounces of drink mix plus 6 gels is a lot of liquid for a marathon.

                         

                        JMac Best wishes for the MRI. I wouldn't want you on the couch injured while tracking CIM. The FOMO would be real, at least for me, having to suffer through that. The weather actually looks, at this point, to be "warm" but not windy. Looming rainstorm the following day will obviously blow in Saturday night. Again.

                        Oh and run a longer race than 3 hours and/or 26 miles. Caffeine is AMAZING along late night trail races at least from my pacing perspective.

                         

                        Keen I think the sharp taper is beneficial to everyone EXCEPT darkwave. Local runner training for CIM has probably been tapering for a week and commented/titled how her runs are anything BUT relaxing at this point. The sharper taper for us seems like "oh wow a weekend with just two ONE HOUR runs...CAKE EATING!" I think two weeks of that at this point would be "okay so when is race day? how far are we running? This is the first single digit 'long' run of taper? and this is okay?" I don't even know how far my "long run" will be this weekend, and I'm trying to convince myself a countdown from 10 would be perfect. No need to do 13, but if I don't do 12+ I'll be solo soooooooooooooooo....decisions decisions.

                        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                        VDOT 51

                        5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10


                        Elite Jogger

                           

                          600mg of caffeine?  That's a LOT.

                           

                          I took 3 during a long run last week and didn’t have any issues. (I don’t normally take gels on training runs).

                           

                          I checked out the Maurten website and they recommend as a rough guideline to consume 200mg caffeine during the hours leading up to the race, then a gel 30min into the race and another every second hour.  So I guess I could go with 3 caffeine and 3 non caffeine gels just to be on the safe side.

                          5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                          JMac11


                          Milkman

                            Mikkey - that sounds much more reasonable. That's 300 mg over 3 hours, which is like a strong cup of coffee. For someone who doesn't take caffeine, even that is a lot.

                             

                            RP - I'm a big fan of 90 minutes 7 days prior. So for some that might be 11 miles, for others it's 14. 10 miles is not enough given your mileage history. 12 sounds about right. Also way too far in advance for weather forecasts. As we saw last year two years ago: we thought it was going to be raining the entire race and then the weather worked out

                            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                             

                            Next Race: Unknown 

                              I've had coffee with Mikey  Good luck in your comeback race 🏁

                               

                              11 more sleeps until sunny Spain!

                               

                              I’ll be packing 6 caffeine Maurten gels and 2 of their 320 mix drinks for fuel. I rarely drink coffee so I’m hoping the caffeine boost will make my legs go that little bit faster.

                              50+ PBs -  

                              5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                              10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                              Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                              " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                              Somewhere in between is about right "      

                               

                              Running Problem


                              Problem Child

                                JMac 90 minutes sounds good. Can I sandbag it? I remember the rain, and wind, from the 2019 forecast. The left hand turn around mile 6 was supposed to be a massive headwind and I was SO SCARED of trying to pull sub 3 pace. Then I went and did faster in the wind for a workout. "train like you race" and it was definitely interesting to see paces, heart rate, wind and think about CIM. Also to look back on training when I totally bailed on a windy day. Crazy how fast things improved. Seriously. This has been the shortest training block I've slapped together and I'd always been a believer of longer training blocks.

                                 

                                Mikkey I've switched to caffeine pills for pre-race. All the benefits of a cup of coffee without the liquid filling up the stomach. You might find some that are exactly 200 mg.

                                 

                                EDIT: I had a cup or two of coffee yesterday (less than normal. I think due to stomach virus) then a 16 ounce (473 mL) Rockstar Energy drink with 300 mg of caffeine around 9am. I guess I drink a lot of caffeine, but oddly not soda. Sorry, but my state doesn't put an extra tax on "sugary drinks" and if they did I'd go back to buying a whole 32 pack from Costco.

                                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                                VDOT 51

                                5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10