1

Struggling a bit with running at heavier weight (Read 173 times)

Shane Hanson


    ***EDIT*** I'm terrible about writing concise questions; my original post below contains a bunch of superfluous information. If you TL;DR, here's the bottom line: I'm looking for some advice on how to handle running at a heavier weight. I'm 195 right now, vs. 160 when I used to run a lot; it's mostly muscle weight (though I could probably afford to lose 5-15), so I'm not looking for weight loss strategies, but I'm constantly dealing with little strains and inflammations I didn't have to worry about at 160. I'm trying to train for a half marathon in 2 months, but that may be unrealistic. ***EDIT***

     

    I ran cross country in high school, when I weighed about 140 lbs, increasing to 160 my senior year. Running was pretty much my only form of fitness through high school and most of college.

     

    Now, almost 10 years later, I weigh 195. While I do have a little fat which I could afford to lose, it's mostly muscle weight (my waistline hasn't grown much), as I added strength training and yoga to my routine. I have continued running off and on ever since high school, and I always wanted to get back into doing some races, but my lack of consistency always kept me from getting into race shape. This past year, I decided I would start doing races anyway, and I would just be OK with not being as fast as I used to be. I ran Bloomsday in Spokane, WA, and I was pretty happy with my performance, although I did injure my ankle and knee slightly. Later I did a local (Whitefish, MT) 4 miler; I had a nasty cold which really limited me, but I finished.

     

    Now I have my sights set on a half marathon at the end of February. For some context, my longest run ever in high school was about 12 miles, so this is a whole new territory distance-wise. Training was going well; last Wednesday I went for 6 miles on a hard trail with lots of elevation change. I felt great afterwards; it felt like a kind of breakthrough run, as my previous recent runs had mostly been 3-4 miles. A couple days later, I went for an easy 3 miles and felt terrible. My legs were stiff and sore (despite spending a lot of time stretching and doing yoga after the 6 miler). I tried not to get discouraged and just did some yoga and core work for the next few days.

     

    Last night, I went for another easy 2.5 miles; I wanted to go longer (heart and lungs feeling great, like they barely got a workout), but I had to cut it short because my knee was excruciating. I iced, but it stiffened further during the evening, to the point I could barely walk. Fortunately, it feels mostly better today (a little pain but no trouble walking), so I'm pretty confident I'll be able to run again in a couple days.

     

    I was wondering if others in the community had experience with the sorts of nagging injuries and inflammation that come with trying to run at a heavier weight. I've found that getting into running shape at a heavier weight takes exponentially more time; at 160, I could go from not running for months to 5-8 miles a day in very little time. I have managed to get into good running shape at 180 in the past (albeit very slowly), but 195 makes a noticeable difference. Losing some weight could help, but, in my experience, losing weight can lead to achy, sore muscles which don't respond as well to exercise (i.e. increasing my running while losing weight could lead to more nagging injuries). I already stretch 1000 times better than I used to. Should I focus more on strength training for my lower body until I build my leg muscles up? Should I accept that a half marathon in 2 months is unrealistic?

      You don't say anything about the speeds you are running, how often, or how far.

       

      Strength is only a small part of running fitness.  You need to build up your endurance, your fat burning capability, your tendons, your bones, and some enzyme systems.  Some of this comes from running every day, most from running slow, some from running regularly over a long time (years), some from running fast, and some from running far.

       

      Your speed at 195 lbs will be at least a minute per mile slower than your speed at 160 lbs.  Your best training pace is about 2 minutes per mile slower than your half marathon race pace, and about 3 minutes per mile slower than your 5K race pace.  Or slower than that.  Running too slow has slightly less benefit than running at the ideal training pace, running too fast, too far, too soon will injure you.  This is why you have had problems.

       

      Solution:  Slow down.  I repeat, SLOW DOWN.  Run every day.  Start with a short distance, maybe only a mile or two.  Gradually build up to 3 to 4 miles every day, or at least six days per week.  This will give you a 20 to 25 mile per week base, which is enough to finish a half marathon.  When you can maintain that mileage and frequency of running, then make one run per week longer.  When you can run 10 miles at a slow pace, possibly with a short walk break or two, then you are ready to run a half marathon.

       

      A 20 to 25 mile per week base with a few long runs will get you to the finish line of a half marathon.  Expect to be stiff and sore for few days afterward.  A 30 mile per week base over a few months will get you to the finish line faster, and much less stiffness and soreness afterward.

      Shane Hanson


        Interesting points. I don't time myself strictly, but I know I've been running slower than I used to. As I get into shape I usually gradually increase my speed until I'm running about 8 minutes per mile, regardless of distance. I also usually base my pace on my breathing; on a normal run, I run as fast as I can without becoming short on breath; if I'm struggling to breathe, I slow down; if my breathing feels easy, I speed up. This made sense in the past, as it was my cardio shape which generally limited me, but, weighing more today, my legs are my limiting factor.  Slowing down will be hard, considering all my previous running experience tells me to speed up when my heart and lungs don't feel the workout, but I will try.

        GinnyinPA


          On most of your runs, you should be able to carry on a conversation with another runner, if there were one running with you.  You can try reciting a poem or the Pledge of Allegiance to test your ability to speak whole sentences easily.  It's counter-intuitive, but you get faster by going slow.  That allows you to go farther with less stress on the body.

          LedLincoln


          not bad for mile 25

            Listen to JRMichler; his advice is right on. You'll be a lot better off with easy, short runs almost every day than with fast/hard/long runs 3x/week. You have nothing in your log, so I'm just guessing from what you wrote.

            pedaling fool


              I think my situation very closely mirrors yours, in that I'm a relatively heavy runner @ 215lbs and I have a bum knee, a result of a childhood accident; the only real difference is that I don't have the running background you have, so in that sense you have an advantage -- I started running late in life.

               

              As I said, I have a bum knee from an accident very early in my life, which caused major damage to my patellar tendon and I often feel pain during and after running, much like a permanent case of Runner's Knee. However, it's now getting better (I did a hard 10-mile run yesterday and hardly feel anything) and I credit the following.

               

              1. Like someone already mentioned, slow down. I've found that long slow runs are the best for building a base, not just an aerobic base, but the musculoskeletal base. By that I mean all the things that absorb the shock, such as your muscles, joints, bones and connective tissues. This is not to say always run slow, I do a fair amount of speed work and tempo runs, but the slow stuff is what is needed for building your foundation, just like the foundation of the house is so important. I remember reading once that the the more you run it's like putting money in the bank, the more you do it the more you have, but it takes time and patience and if you don't do a fair amount of them at a reasonable pace then you are only burning yourself out and upping chances for injury.

               

              2. I've really concentrated on weight training for my lower body. Don't fall for the myth, that just because you run a lot you don't need to weight train for your legs. I do all kinds of things, but one of the most effective was working my legs up to do single-leg squats (and I mean full range motion -- going all the way down).  Check this dude out   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWvIu7s-vIM

               

              3. Working on my cadence to get around 90 steps per minute, but also working on Running Drills, to help me stay light on my feet. There are quite a few drills, but I have only a few that are my favorites and really help me. It's funny, because I remember seeing these videos on drills a few years ago and thinking, what a waste of time...However, I've found that they are good things and really help with your stride. When doing them I'm always thinking of being light on my feet. These are just a couple of video, there are others, but I've found that they really help my form and cadence.

               

              Here are a few, find what works for you:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvH5WZk0f90

               

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5VgwXqM7p4

               

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAiAvupFT6g

              Shane Hanson


                Thanks for the advice everyone. I haven't been keeping a log on here (it's been a long time since I used this site), but I'd say I've been running, on average, 2-4 times per week for the past couple of months; until last week's 6 miler, they were mostly 2-3 miles and a couple 4 milers. I have also been doing 1-2 additional weekly non running workouts (upper body, core, power yoga). I have recently avoided doing lower body weight training, as I didn't want to make my legs too sore to run, but it sounds like it might be worth it, especially sooner rather than later.

                 

                I will try to increase to 5-6 easier runs per week, but this is logistically difficult for me. I detest running on the treadmill and don't have money for a gym membership anyway (good thing I don't mind running in the cold, snow, and ice). Here in Montana, it currently gets dark around 5 pm, and I get off work at 4, with almost an hour commute; I don't like running directly from work because I have dogs who would be heartbroken if I ran without them. If I leave from my house, unless I want to run on a highway with almost no shoulder in the dark, my only option is an amazing set of trails. I would normally say this is a good thing, but I'm not a fan of running in the woods after dark either. This leaves me the option of driving into town and running there, and, considering my problem with these minor strains, running on pavement is not ideal; in fact, the only time I've run on pavement recently was the other night, when I hurt my knee. Hopefully I'll build up some tolerance to that impact after a few more easy runs in town.

                 

                Power yoga provides a solid balance of strength, cardio, and flexibility, so I have used that to build up my cardio, but it seems like that has not prepared my legs for the added stresses and impact of running. I guess I will just have to suck it up and run on pavement in town more frequently.

                pedaling fool


                  Thanks for the advice everyone. I haven't been keeping a log on here (it's been a long time since I used this site), but I'd say I've been running, on average, 2-4 times per week for the past couple of months; until last week's 6 miler, they were mostly 2-3 miles and a couple 4 milers. I have also been doing 1-2 additional weekly non running workouts (upper body, core, power yoga). I have recently avoided doing lower body weight training, as I didn't want to make my legs too sore to run, but it sounds like it might be worth it, especially sooner rather than later.

                   

                  I will try to increase to 5-6 easier runs per week, but this is logistically difficult for me. I detest running on the treadmill and don't have money for a gym membership anyway (good thing I don't mind running in the cold, snow, and ice). Here in Montana, it currently gets dark around 5 pm, and I get off work at 4, with almost an hour commute; I don't like running directly from work because I have dogs who would be heartbroken if I ran without them. If I leave from my house, unless I want to run on a highway with almost no shoulder in the dark, my only option is an amazing set of trails. I would normally say this is a good thing, but I'm not a fan of running in the woods after dark either. This leaves me the option of driving into town and running there, and, considering my problem with these minor strains, running on pavement is not ideal; in fact, the only time I've run on pavement recently was the other night, when I hurt my knee. Hopefully I'll build up some tolerance to that impact after a few more easy runs in town.

                   

                  Power yoga provides a solid balance of strength, cardio, and flexibility, so I have used that to build up my cardio, but it seems like that has not prepared my legs for the added stresses and impact of running. I guess I will just have to suck it up and run on pavement in town more frequently.

                  It's not surprising that yoga and other balance-type exercises haven't been effective at protecting against the stresses of running, because they are all low-impact. To build up for impact you gotta do impact, but before jumping into impact you will be well served to establish a base and that's where weight training comes in. One thing I forgot to mention is to work in plyometric exercises, something as simple as skipping rope, but advancing from there to jumping boxes and stuff....

                   

                  Also read this interesting article on why runners should lift weights, not just light weights at high reps, but also heavy weights at a very few reps. (But you want to make sure before going heavy that you build a base with lighter weights at high reps).    http://running.competitor.com/2014/03/training/heavy-lifting-for-better-running_67162

                   

                  And it is true that you will be very sore after your leg workouts, some of the worst post-workout pains I've had were in the legs and butt. However, over time as your conditioning improves that pain goes away. And while you will not want to run a couple days after a lower-body w/o, you can use that time to do certain running drills.

                   

                  It's incredible how strong you feel once you work up your legs with weight training. With my knee issues I was considering stopping running, but I really didn't want to stop, it was a bad time for me and I'm so glad I turned to weight training my lower body, now I know I will never stop running --- btw, I'm 51 y/o, that's probably (besides my injury) why weightlifting has helped me, because once you hit ~30 years of age your body starts losing muscle mass, albeit very slow process, but you really don't have an appreciation of how much until you get it back -- and then some.

                    Shane,

                     

                    It's nice to see that you still are connected to your running.  If I remember correctly, back in high school, you set a few goals to reach and then went out after them.  Your plan to run more at your new weight is no different.  The key will be to have patience and realize that anything worth going after is worth the time to do so correctly.  A half-marathon in two months time may be a bit on the quick side, but having that as a short term goal may help you on your way to reaching what you really seek - continuous, healthy running.

                     

                    If your goal is to run, and enjoy it, then slow the pace down a bit and listen to your body.  Anytime that you have to listen to a knee screaming at you after a run, means that you've gone past what should be considered acceptable.  If you try the overload approach, you spend much more time recovering from running rather than running.

                     

                    Think back to your high school days and try to remember the basic principles that made it work for you back then.  First of all, the workout days were set in a hard - easy sequence.  More intensity on Tuesday and Thursday, less intensity on Wednesday and Friday.  Race day was Saturday, with Sunday set aside for recovery or a long day, and Monday easy to recover from the Weekend and to prepare for Tuesday's harder day.  To survive running at your new weight.  Try a similar concept.  Set aside a day for longer or faster runs, with an easier day in between.  Also, be sure that you are running within yourself.  Time to press should be set for later when your body has adapted to the new weight.

                     

                    Set weekly goals for your mileage, or time.  Each week gradually add more mileage.  This addition is usually suggested to be around 10 percent, but  5 miles added each week could also work.  The key is gradual adaptation to the new stress (running), and since your body would like to survive, it will either adapt, or send you warning signs (sore knee and muscles) to keep you from over doing it.  Since you are friends with your body, and want it to help you finish a marathon, then respect it and listen to it.  Pay attention during the run for problems rather than bulling you way through and paying attention after your run.

                     

                    Also, for those times that you neglect to listen to your body, use Ice treatment on the area that is causing you problems.  Rest is usually the answer for solving the aches.  Rest could mean a day off, or a shorter, slower run.

                     

                    In regard to stretching, yoga, core work, and the rest.  They are all fantastic additions to any running program and will add to your overall rounding fitness.  The one activity that will make you better at running, however, is the act of running itself.  When you can only run in the dark, and you have exhausted your other choices, load the dogs, and head to town.  If the goal is important enough, you will choose to do the things that will help you reach the goal.  Find ways to overcome any obstacle rather than having it block you way.  Purchase a lightweight headlamp so you can see, and reflective tape so others on the road can see you, and enjoy running in the snowy, winter conditions.

                     

                    Good Luck and "Go Dawgs!"

                      There's a guy in my neck of the world who runs about 195-210 lbs, about 5'10" and routinely drops 19:15 to 19:45 5ks. He's also about 45 yrs  old. The last time I ran into him at an evening 5k, he told me he had run a 10k that morning and then done a swim. He's a bit of an animal.